Giving yourself permission to be w/ Kris Alvarez (part 2)

Kris Alvarez (: 00:00

I just want to be. And I want my kids to have that too all the time. And I want my audiences or people who come into my art world to be able to just be. Because we don't get time to do that. We have to put on our armor and put on things.

Nikko Snyder (: 00:26

I'm Nikko Snyder and welcome to Parenting Creative. On this podcast, we explore the alchemy that happens when we embrace both our creative life and our parenting one. This is a community for parents and caregivers who are using art and creative practice to nourish our whole selves so we can show up fully for our kids, our communities, and everything else we're passionate about. I'm so excited for you to join me this season as I dive into deep conversation with diverse creative parents, including theater artists,

spoken word poets, entrepreneurs, scholars, movement artists and more. There is no one way to create art and no one way to parent. Learning from each other's beautiful differences is magical and I believe it can change the world. Parenting Creative is an independent podcast and you can support us by leaving us a review, following us on social media and sharing the podcast with your coven of creative caregivers. I'll share more about that in the show notes.

Today's episode is the second part of a two-part conversation with theatre artist, community magic maker and parent, Kris Alvarez. Kris is a Filipino-Canadian based on Treaty 4 Territory in Regina, and she's the parent of two young adults who are 17 and 20. In our conversation today, we talk about creating theatre with non-performers, including her own parents, being the child of immigrants, the integration of art into all aspects of life, and the importance of great snacks.

And if you missed part one, please do yourself a favor and go back and listen to our conversation about real serious play and the experience of navigating the serious mental illness of a child. Here's the final part of my conversation with theater artist, community builder and parent, Kris Alvarez.

Nikko Snyder (: 02:13

You talked a little bit about your parents and being the child of immigrants. And I would love you, you also talked about their playfulness and also their, as artists. So I would love to.

Nikko Snyder (: 02:29

to

hear about

Nikko Snyder (: 02:32

a little bit about your upbringing and sort of what was modeled to you in terms of creative life, but also, you what you've said is being the child of immigrants, feeling that your parents, you know, gave up so much for you and that you're, I think you said this in our last conversation, but that you're, you you always feel this need to pay them back and, you know, give back to them for that, what they have given you. Anyways, I would love to hear about your upbringing, what was modeled to you.

Nikko Snyder (: 02:58

hear a little bit about.

Nikko Snyder (: 03:01

And now parents are close in your life and they're close in your art practice as well. And I would love to hear about that. know that you have a current project that you're working on with your parents. yeah, I would love to hear about that.

Nikko Snyder (: 03:02

your

Kris Alvarez (: 03:18

Yeah, yeah, I'm bananas enough to make a show with my parents. That's actually what it's come down to now. Well, yeah, so they have been, I've insinuated them into my art practice, basically from burnt sienna world, because when I first did a conversation out loud at the artesian, ⁓ the early, early versions of the show, I had a dinner party that the audience could watch and listen to. And I was like, I

If we are going have food, I want my mom's food. Can she cook? So she catered, but she's right there and my dad's right there. And I noticed being comfortable in a room, I'm more comfortable if I've got people that are my relations. Like my parents are there and I'm talking to them while I'm talking to the audience. And that kind of banned her. was like, I want to bring that into Bern Sienna. So they've been, my dad is my house band. He's like, if I'm...

Dave Letterman, he's my whatever that guy's name is, And I wanted that. And my mom, I have invited her into shows to share a bit of when we play games on some of my shows so that we can have fun and dispel these ideas of culture. ⁓ I'll bring her in to talk about being Filipino. In this new version of Burt Sienna Boulevard, which is...

variety show for young people, it's for kids. And they're kids that I work with, young people who perform or work backstage in the show. And it's kind of my love letter as well to Sesame Street, because that's what I grew up with. That's how I learned was through Sesame Street and through those those really fun diddies public service announcements during Saturday morning cartoons. So

They're in that show and my dad plays a really big part as this traveling musician and my mom plays the part as the elder who remembers old stories of being a little kid. Cutting to now, ⁓ after these years of working together slowly, I wanted to write a bit about them because they're getting older. And so the show Banana Music is what's come out. Banana Music is what my dad wrote on all of his cassettes.

cassettes of music of his own music that he recorded in the basement on his eight track. There's a leatherette case of cassettes that all say banana music. And he used to have that in the car. And I remember as a teenager even, like thinking, why does he listen to those when he drives around? he used to have to, his work meant he would have to travel a lot by car, so.

I thought, was he listening to his own music? And then banana music, this pretend label, is this a pretend label? Is this like a goal? So the show that I wrote, a one act play about memory, about my parents, is a show we're working on right now. We're bringing to different places actually in the fall to Edmonton. And it's me performing, talking to the audience about memories. Like I have these.

stories about growing up in their house and and I situate the play in their house and my parents are on stage and they exist on stage as themselves and so My mom's track through the whole 45 minute show is cooking she comes to the kitchen She makes breakfast live. She cooks breakfast live during the show. Okay, so you get the smells I play the cassettes that I found on a Stereo like so that analog sound of cassettes

My dad comes into the living room and picks up his guitar like he does at home while my mom cooks, plays a bit of music. So they're on stage and the whole, the point of the show is me sharing memories about growing up with these people, but it's also about talking about they're older now and I'm dealing with their stuff, like all their shit. Whether that's their health stuff or their stuff stuff in the basement, whether it's how they don't know how to remember their passwords and I feel like

drowning myself when I have to help them with IT things like on online. So there's a whole scene about that passwords. There's a whole scene about their fridge and how I go there every couple weeks and I throw stuff out. ⁓ So it's about older people and the care we have for our older relatives and getting to and how we're getting to know them or we aren't getting to know them. How we can feel like we know them when we're adults, but then we find out something like banana music and we're like

What's this thing? What's this dream you had that I don't know anything about? Yeah, so the idea is like, I'm trying to tell the audience that get to know my parents by sharing these things about them. And my parents are existing and once in while my mom will be like, what are you talking to them about? And I'll say, I'm telling them more about you. By the end of the show, they say, well, we're right here. Why don't they just come talk to us? And so the end of the show is we share a meal together and they get to talk and.

And audience gets to think about what's the banana music in your life about your family or your parents. Yeah, so I'm bringing all that up to say I'm at a place in life with my parents that's both joyful and painful, like where I'm like loving, hanging out with that, getting to know these things about them. But as soon as I get to their house, they still drive me bananas, like they drive me nuts. And they can be really annoying in their old ways, in their old people ways.

And I can see all the things like how they're hungry for attention because they're retired and at home. And we get to their house and they just like, they fight actually over who gets to share the story they were gonna share. How they can't hear well, how they still have lots of junk to deal with in their house. Anyway, that's the story. But me bringing them into the world of art is a big part of the immigrant kid who wants to pay back.

and give them time to make art. Because all along growing up, Nikko, as you asked, like, what is it like? They were working hard and when they weren't working hard, they would play hard. Like, we would have really lovely, sometimes the weekends would be, you know, just hanging out together. My dad plays lots of music, Beatles music. My mom makes really good food. But also like little, she loves art. She would be painting or jewelry or she's always doing something different.

They both love games, so I learned that playfulness a lot from them. They would love to play games, like made up games in the car on the road trips we take to board games. Yeah, and they were very affectionate. They are very affectionate. And so I forget that until other friends are around me and they're like, wow, your dad and your mom, hug all the time. Yeah, so I was around a lot of real good things.

And I clued in on that early on in burnt sienna world and being like, that's I want an audience to experience, because a lot of my, whether they're white or not white, my brown or not brown friends, a lot of people don't have families where they feel that that kind of affection, playfulness or joy. And so that was my generous way of offering that into audience world.

sharing my family a little bit. Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 11:05

Sounds like a lovely gift.

Nikko Snyder (: 11:06

to them in some ways to sort of create a space where they can embrace their art or, you know, being artists and a gift to yourself to journey deeper into that, you know, getting to know them as adults and older adults. Yeah, and it also sounds like it's the beginning of your journey into elder care. mean, you're, yeah, I'm also, you know, living.

close to my parents and kind of in this intergenerational situation here. And yeah, yeah, just that kind of awareness of their aging and just what that is going to look like over time and what my role will be in that over time. So yeah, I'm just, kind of seeing it through that lens, your journey, but loving and loving that you're just again, integrating it into, into your art. There was something that you said the last time we talked about, I was

kind of commenting on how integrated, like how you are integrating your kids into your art. You've done that since they were little. You're integrating your parents into your art. ⁓ And you said something about compartmentalization and how that's just so not how you can be, like that you are terrible at compartmentalizing. Can you share a little bit about that? I just, loved how you talked about

Kris Alvarez (: 12:24

Yeah. I'm a lousy multitasker. I'm a great improviser. I know I'm a good improviser. I can improvise. I can roll with it. But I'm a pretty single task when it comes to me learning something. And so that's why I do like to integrate or streamline stuff. Like when my kids are little, what can I do in the art world that pays me a little check and I can have my kids involved and I can learn about them more? Same with my parents. How can I?

get to know them more, well I can bring them into my world more. I want to spend more time with them. ⁓ I know ⁓ compartmentalizing feels like it's a very North American thing to do, I think. And I know as a kid growing up even, think that would be now looking back, one of those things that would mark for me like how I'm not so white, like ⁓ in my...

Growing up in my household, my parents integrated things lots. Like we're having supper, but we're also, my mom's working on this art piece. we're having, I'm trying to think of a, we were going on a road trip because we want to go on vacation, but we're also going to go see family, because that's how we can afford to do it. So often it was about, for them, I think, what's accessible.

And it's still the same for me. And so this North American culture of compartmentalize, if you make art, it goes in this gallery space or this traditional theater. If you have kids, this is how you talk to them, speak to them, relate to them. And when you're dealing with adults, it's a different way. I've never understood that because as far as I could see, my parents mostly were themselves.

They had their parental armor too. But I learned a lot of that integrating early on because in my life, in the living room of my parents' house, in my home, they would play music just like whenever. It's like two in the afternoon, my dad picks up his guitar, right? Or once my mom starts making supper, they throw a record on and I have this distinct memory of Dire Straits is on and my dad puts it on so that he can...

lure my mom from the stove to have a dance for a moment. They'd dance in the living room. So art for me was always part of life. It wasn't compartmentalized. And my mom as a mom and my dad as a dad, their way of parenting, they weren't like, now we're parenting. My dad would give us some of his work. I remember there were these pages in his work that he would have to literally just put a line through with his pencil. He would give me that to do.

while he was working. So like that integration of like, well, I have to finish this job, but I want to hang out with my daughter. And now I can see that. And so I guess that's where my comfort is of being, as I say all the time, like don't want to be a bag. I don't want to be a mean person or I know myself and my temper or like what will make me feel in a bad mood.

So I don't want to be in that. I want to be enjoying myself and I want my people around me to enjoy my company. So what's the best, what are the conditions that make that happen? And we do that for our kids all the time, right? Like we don't want our toddler to have a tantrum. So we make sure they have a nap at this time and have this version of a snack at this time. Well, that's what I do for myself. And so that I can provide in a good way and be kind. so integrating for me,

is also a way of pushing against, I think, the North American capitalist culture of this goes here, this goes here. Because I'm a square peg always being shoved into the round hole and I never fit in places. So no, I'm gonna make it so that everything can be in everything. Everything is everything. And now I'm hearing all of these sayings on yoga websites and everywhere else.

that all these things can be true at the same time. Yeah, it's been like that forever. So, ⁓ and the more I can accept that is good for me. I don't think the world is all up to speed with that, which is why we have to struggle against things, right? Because we all have to make money to pay bills and we all have to spend time with our kids because they're going to move away sooner than later. Yeah.

And for me that's one thing, like I guess being an immigrant kid, like yeah, my parents wanted to hang out, but they had to go work. And so when they were home, they wanted to just like, let's watch a movie, let's have really good snacks, let's play and laugh, because the rest of life is always the suffering already. I maintain that most brown or other d-

whether that's a person in disability culture, or it's a person who's an old woman, there's always time for suffering. For some reason, our society doesn't always make time for just real joy, like real comfort, or I mean, like, and real, I don't mean like buying shit. Because we all go on our vacations and then we get there and have to do a bunch of stuff too, like no, no, no, no, let's just hang out and be...

Nikko Snyder (: 17:55

Yeah.

Kris Alvarez (: 18:06

not very wise I guess just to say that but I'm that's how I feel like I just want to be and I want my kids to have that too all the time and I want my audiences or people who come into my art world to be able to just be because we don't get time to do that we have to put on our armor and put on things yeah

Nikko Snyder (: 18:31

I want to pause for just a moment to thank you for listening. Parenting creative is my labor of love. If what we're exploring resonates with you, I hope you'll take a few moments to support the podcast and get involved in the parenting creative community. The best possible ways to do that, talk us up to your friends and leave us a five-star review with a few kind words. And if you want more parenting creative in your life, sign up for our free email newsletter to get sneak peeks and guest announcements, behind the scenes stories, and deeper reflections on each episode. You can find links to all of this in our show notes.

Now back to Kris.

Nikko Snyder (: 19:03

when we talked before and some of what you've said today is that you've had these chances to suffer in your life and that suffering is also, you know, is what has shaped you, what has expanded your capacity to love, all these.

Kris Alvarez (: 19:19

Yeah,

I mean all of us have it's hard to swallow that pill sometimes. Yeah when I had thyroid cancer someone said you're gonna see the silver lining they said it too soon I was like not ready for it and I was like ass off that is not what I need to hear right now but in the end it is true like right when someone asks how do you get to do all the awesome things you're doing or why are you so open and vulnerable Kris I tell them it's because of the suffering.

And I don't mean that in the way like, my gosh, I've suffered so much. mean like, because the world is suffering and our bodies suffer in the sense of like, we're older, we decay, we slowly age. So let's, you know, be kind to our bodies and our spirits and our minds, because sooner than later, this will be done, this will be done. And that's how I feel about with kids, like, wow.

It's just so, it is so fast. And I don't, they're often annoying or tiring, but they're also so like, wow, so cool to get to hang out with someone and actually be real with them. Like to tell them how you also struggle with something. First time that Iris and I went to, she went to pay for something at the drug store. And that whole lineup behind her, uptight humans were like huffing or crossing their arms because they're waiting.

Like she wasn't, you know, taking that long, but she could feel the pressure. yeah, that was, again, it's a landmark for me of being a great guardian where I got to say, hey, forget, those people, forget about them. Just take your time and take your coins out. It's fine. Because you feel that need to rush and hurry up. To me, that's like a big, that was a big teacher for me, a teacher moment of.

for me to learn like, yeah, if you can keep doing that for these kids, like give them time to go, hey, you actually don't have to learn that right now really quickly. You don't have to throw the receipt in so quick and you can take a moment to like, it's okay. I guess I do that for in my art work making too.

Nikko Snyder (: 21:37

like create that space for people to.

Nikko Snyder (: 21:40

Yeah. Experience

or?

Kris Alvarez (: 21:42

Take

a moment to like, it's okay if you don't have it figured out. Like this thing with racism, this thing with, I've been very worried about our culture getting more and more so quick to judge, more and more so quick to call the thing. I mean, it's instant online. You either thumb up, thumbs up something or thumbs down. It's like gladiator pit online. Thumbs up, thumbs down. I don't have it all figured out.

And I need time. And I even want that for people who have different opinions than me. I don't have time for people who have hate opinions or aren't ready to hear stuff. But there's a lot more humans, I think, who just aren't sure. Whether that's about politics, whether that's about how we should be living and taking care of young people.

whether that's about identity. There's so much in our culture of just understand it now, like right away. Learn it now. And when I first started doing Burt Sienna, that wasn't where I was coming from. Like I hear people who are like, we don't tolerate racism, we don't tolerate sexism, we don't tolerate transphobia. Yes, agreed, agreed, of course. And, but are we tolerating people? Are we giving tolerance to learning?

Are we giving tolerance to humans being human? To kids fucking up because that's how they're going to learn. Are we? Am I? I don't know. Sometimes. And myself, I've never learned well under pressure, with fear or with shame. I've never learned well in those conditions.

Nikko Snyder (: 23:36

Poop.

Nikko Snyder (: 23:37

does.

Kris Alvarez (: 23:38

But we often set it up that way. How many times as a kid have you felt shame or embarrassed because you didn't know the answer to something or online if you didn't know the right quote for the right thing as an adult? Like we're constantly setting up that fear. Fear and shame are like the worst.

Nikko Snyder (: 23:59

the worst.

Nikko Snyder (: 24:00

don't know.

Nikko Snyder (: 24:03

This time goes so quickly. I would love to just talk to you all day and wish you were here and we could just have, you know, drink coffee or wine or something. Scotch. Scotch. But yeah, I definitely want to give you a chance to promote, you know, whatever you would like to and just let listeners know how they can support you, how they can discover more about what you're doing. And you've talked a bit about your projects that are in development or.

Nikko Snyder (: 24:14

just.

Nikko Snyder (: 24:33

upcoming. But yeah, please share anything you'd like to promote.

Kris Alvarez (: 24:38

people can just follow me. I don't have a separate account, speaking of integrating, of professional stuff or art stuff. My Instagram account you can follow, that's where I put everything that's going on. Or Curtain Razors, so maybe we could just share those links. Curtain Razors is the theater company I'm an associate with, which is often how I bring my work into the world, because they support me so well and take care of me, the colleagues that I'm with, I mean, in that company.

I am going to be in Edmonton in September for almost three weeks doing a Bert Sienna residency where I get to do two weeks of banana music with my parents and then we end it the last night I'm actually resurrecting Bert Sienna that I kind of put to bed. So I'm doing, we're doing two weeks of banana music shows ending with one Bert Sienna ⁓ in Edmonton. So that's coming up in September.

Nikko Snyder (: 25:35

and through

Nikko Snyder (: 25:36

Which, there's a, it's through with.

Kris Alvarez (: 25:38

Common

Ground Art Society. Yeah, we went to, we brought our show to their festival last July, found festival in Edmonton, had a great time and they wanted us back. They loved the show and wanted to bring it back. An old friend, Mack Brock runs the company and he, I said, you know, I can come do this 45 minute show.

lot of work and care outside of the show, but the show itself isn't like super tiring for me because I'm a professional in a 45-minute show. But so I pitched to him, I'm like, how can we make this more fulsome? Like, I really want to meet some other Asian brown artists, young ones. I'd love for my dad to offer a songwriter circle or like have an intergenerational moment. So the whole three weeks is full. There's like

I'm gonna do a golden potluck while I'm there, which is another project in my practice of bringing older matrix to the table to talk. I'm gonna do a workshop on burnt sienna, like how to make work with non performing people, how to build community up from where it's at. I'm doing a workshop like that. Yeah, it's a really full offer. And I'm so excited to do that.

Nikko Snyder (: 27:02

That sounds amazing.

Kris Alvarez (: 27:04

Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, before that I'm going to print Saldor, oops, end of May, to bring the Burnt Sienna Blueprint workshop and to do a banana music at the Mann Art Gallery, I should mention.

Nikko Snyder (: 27:19

Cool.

Nikko Snyder (: 27:20

And the blueprint,

the Birdseye No. Blueprint is that that is kind of sharing like a template sort of for that community arts engagement.

Kris Alvarez (: 27:29

Yeah, it's a hybrid performance workshop. I do about a 30 minute version of the two hour event of Burnsana. We do a 30 minute condensed version. And then we get into the workshop part of the workshop. And I wanted to do it that way instead of just talking about it the whole time. It's like putting some actual being and doing into it. So I do that. We have a conversation, a meal, and then I get the participants to practice.

It's different versions depending on the group of people. like for example, one version is after we have a meal and talk about what they just watched, I asked them what stuck? Like what are the things you relate to? And then I get them to brainstorm with a couple people on an event they would make based on what they can do. Which is one of the big key parts of the workshop is to talk about to do an event, you got to know yourself. Like what do you like?

what gets you going, you know, because when you create a party, if you're not into your party, like if you're into it, people want to come, right? That's how I feel about burnt sienna. If I'm into what I'm talking about, if I'm into the food, the people that I'm talking to. So yeah, at the workshop, some of them, I've also given the idea of like, why don't you make an opening monologue about when you realized you were brown, when the first time you realized you were othered. Yeah, just to get people in there.

in the same relating mode that I get into for making an event like that.

Nikko Snyder (: 29:05

It turns out that this episode is dropping just before Kris's trip to Prince Albert. So if you're in PA on May 30th, you should most certainly check out Banana Music at the Man Art Gallery. Or if you're planning to be in the Edmonton area this September, you can catch Kris's residency and run a Banana Music at the Common Ground Art Society. We'll share a link to more information in our show notes.

Kris Alvarez (: 29:26

Nikko, it's really cool that you asked me to do this. hope what I've offered can, yeah, I really hope, as always, with work I make on stage. I'm so curious and dying to connect with people so that they can feel like, okay, I'm not alone. yeah, I am doing some of the same stuff Kris is doing and it's not crazy. Ludicrous. ⁓ I just really appreciate you thinking that.

I could offer something towards this really cool podcast. Like I'm really touched that you thought I'll ask Kris to do it.

Nikko Snyder (: 30:02

my gosh. you're in the world and I just am so honored that you have shared your time and your wisdom and your spirit with me for this project. So thank you so much for that. And I love the idea that more integration of the different parts of ourselves and the different parts of what we're trying to do in the world.

Nikko Snyder (: 30:03

You are such a bright light.

Nikko Snyder (: 30:32

can become more integrated and sort of more whole. I guess that's a big part of what I'm trying to explore in this project is there's sort of this parenting life and then creative life. And those are the two main things that I'm exploring. But more so just that there is our whole self. What does it mean to be kind of a whole self and how do we nurture that and all the different parts of that?

and integrate those parts and nourish those parts and then share those out into the world. that's what this is trying to get at and ⁓ I feel that how you are in your work and in the world is such a wonderful embodiment of that. So thank you again so much.

Kris Alvarez (: 31:15

My pleasure, my pleasure. Thanks for serving that need, because I think that need that you have is collectively a big one that we all need. And yeah, and the world does, there's just so many systems that want to compartmentalize and separate all the parts of our being. That's why, yeah, I was so tired of that. And I know along the way for the last, I don't know, 20 years, it's like...

Before that, Nikko, you know, like when people are always like, you're amazing or bright light, like, my gosh, you know, before being able to do all these things, there's lots of times I was just my head up my ass or like, just like not figuring stuff out and, or, or also like being a people pleaser that didn't speak up. Like there were many, many moments in my earlier life as a

young person but as a young adult where I didn't I didn't do I didn't speak up I didn't have anything of substance because I was just not touching into all the stuff I just wanted to glide and that was not meaningful for me let alone for anyone else and then luckily the suffering tells you hey there's only so much time before you're gonna be dead and so

You can keep gliding if you want, but is it really satisfying? I'm lucky that, yeah, I was able to accept that earlier in the last couple of decades, but before that, I did so many things that were messy and selfish and made so many mistakes. Bought so many bad outfits. Had some.

pretty bad boyfriends. Yeah, lots of things. like, I I appreciate you seeing what you're seeing in me and I want to just name that. Like I come from a lot of making mistakes along the way and not knowing myself well. But luckily, luckily the world's given me some chances.

Nikko Snyder (: 33:34

Thanks for that reminder. That's how we learn.

Nikko Snyder (: 33:38

become.

Here we are. Through our fuckups.

Kris Alvarez (: 33:43

Like thank God you're not doing this interview with me when I was 22.

Nikko Snyder (: 33:49

or that

Nikko Snyder (: 33:49

Yeah, that I'm 22 trying to pull it off.

Kris Alvarez (: 33:52

Yeah,

not ages. I'm not saying I wasn't. But like I just, yeah, I've had my share. I've had my share. I should tell you this one thing. When I was really young in the old house, so that would have been before grade six. I was maybe in grade two. I was outside with a couple of friends and my parents were in the house and the townhouse and we're in the backyard. And some kid was, for whatever reason, in the group of us was not.

was the one that people all bullied on or whatever, ganged up on. It was not that strong. And I remember like really wanting, we were gonna play game and the notion was already there to exclude this kid. And so I took it upon myself, because I was creating the game, we were gonna do hide and seek or whatever. And I'm like, well, you can't do that though. I was like really, really exclusive to this one kid. I can't even remember what they look like. I don't know who they, I can't remember.

What I remember is after this incident, my dad called me in and he had heard it through his window and he gave me a stern talking. He was like, we never exclude people. We do not do that. That is not part of how you were raised and how you're going to be raised. You include people because it does not feel good to be excluded. And then he gave me the belt that I got. ⁓

Nikko Snyder (: 35:17

my god.

Kris Alvarez (: 35:18

Because I'm a 70s kid, right? So, and even, you know, it was like, like when you get the strap at school, which was a thing when I grew up. But yeah, I remember that. It was like, it's like, I must've been seven. Eight, maybe? wow. Anyway, isn't that wild?

Nikko Snyder (: 35:36

Okay, that stuck with you.

Kris Alvarez (: 35:38

Big time. And it wasn't the belt that like that was scary, but it was more of him just being like, we never do that to people. That feels horrible. You will feel bad if that happens to you. It really stuck with me. Yeah, anyway, which is a of that.

Nikko Snyder (: 36:25

Here's another big shout out to Kris Alvarez for lighting up the world with her particular brand of magic. I also want to thank you for tuning in. If you too make art while parenting or caregiving, I see you in all the glorious struggle and I'm glad you're here. And if you want more parenting creative in your life, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you never miss an episode. Follow us on social media or better yet, skip the billionaires and subscribe to our email newsletter.

Tips are also always welcome and can be sent via parentingcreative.com slash support, or more directly by a simple e-transfer to info at parentingcreative.com. You can find out more about all of that at parentingcreative.com and in our show notes. Before signing off, I want to thank Natural Sympathies for the use of their song, Hello, as the parenting creative theme song, and my partner in live parenting and podcasting, Jeremy Sauer, for his audio wizardry to make this podcast sound so good.

Parenting Creative is created and recorded on the traditional, ancestral, and unceded territory of the Sinixt in the Slocan Valley. Thanks for listening, and I'll talk to you soon.