A child's mental health journey (Kris Alvarez Part 1)

Kris Alvarez (: 00:00

You know, my being human is really allowing you to be human. That's really cool. And that's my practice. That's my art practice too, you know. I want to be human in front of people on stage so that they can be human in the dark and go, yeah, right. This is allowable. Yeah, allowance is a big word in my life. I'm like allowance, right. Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 00:34

I'm Nikko Snyder and welcome to season two of Parenting Creative. On this podcast, we explore the alchemy that happens when we embrace both our creative life and our parenting one. This is a community for parents and caregivers who are using art and creative practice to nourish our whole selves so we can show up fully for our kids, our communities, and everything else we're passionate about. I'm so excited for you to join me this season as I dive into deep conversation with diverse creative parents, including theater artists, spoken word poets,

entrepreneurs, scholars, movement artists and more. There is no one way to create art and no one way to parent. Learning from each other's beautiful differences is magical and I believe it can change the world. Parenting Creative is an independent podcast and you can support us by leaving us a review, following us on social media and sharing the podcast with your coven of creative caregivers. I'll share more about that in the show notes.

Today's episode is part one of a two-part conversation with theatre artist, community magic maker and parent, Kris Alvarez. Kris's family emigrated from the Philippines to Canada when Kris was a child and settled on Treaty 4 territory in Regina. She's now the parent to two young adults who are 17 and 20. We covered so much beautiful ground in our conversation that I immediately realized this episode needed to be in two parts. In part one, we talk about fighting for the space to play.

and not the pretend or performed play that a lot of adults do with kids, but the real serious play that has zero agenda apart from simple shits and giggles. We also talk about the fundamental importance of kindness, the gift of mentorship and paying that forward. And we talk about navigating the serious mental illness of a child, processing that journey by making art and how the experience can blow your capacity to love unconditionally wide open. And that's just part one.

Don't miss the next episode where I'll talk to Kris about creating theater with non-performers, including her own parents, being the child of immigrants, the integration of art into all aspects of life, and the importance of great snacks. Here's the first part of my two-part conversation with theater artist, community builder, and parent, Kris Alvarez.

Kris Alvarez, welcome to Parenting Creative. Thank you so much for being here.

Kris Alvarez (: 02:57

Thank you, Nikko. I'm happy to be here.

Nikko Snyder (: 03:01

I'm really excited to get a chance to talk to you. And a couple years ago, a few years ago now during the pandemic, had, that was the first time I had flirted with this idea of podcasting. And at that time you were right up there on my list of somebody that I, it was a different concept, but you were somebody that I wanted to, to speak with for that concept as well. And so, and we did, we actually had an interview and then that podcast went absolutely nowhere.

And so then when I started, when I came up with this concept, you were right up there at the top of my list again. And I was really excited to want to talk to you about this because you are this amazing artist and parent. And I knew that you would have a ton of...

just amazing things to say about these topics. But I think I mentioned to you that I was too shy because I didn't want to reach out right away because I had already interviewed you for a project that went nowhere. So I wanted to have some like proof of concept before I reached out to you. And so I did, we produced an entire season and then I thought, okay, I'm gonna take a deep breath and reach out to Kris again because...

Now it's time for season two and you were still at the top of my list. So thank you, thank you, thank you for agreeing to speak with me.

Kris Alvarez (: 04:25

Aww. Thank you. I'm happy. saw the first ⁓ sharing online of your podcast and I liked them and I was thinking about it. was like, ⁓ I feel like my brain couldn't remember with the before and after times of pandemic. was like, was that the before times when we had that conversation? Yeah. Yeah. Also menopause. Also menopause. brain is like a colander.

at this point with memories or some memories anyways.

Nikko Snyder (: 04:56

Yeah, I hear that. I am there with you. So let's jump in. I usually invite my guests to start by just introducing themselves. So I would love to hear a little bit about your identities in the world, kind of your place, your worldview, and also your art practice and how who you are is informing the art that you're making in the world.

Kris Alvarez (: 05:23

Hmm cool cool. Okay Let's see. This is I always find this tricky It's like when I'm asked to send in a bio for a show or a project I often have a an aversion to it. But here's here's what I can tell you. I can tell you that I was born somewhere else in the Philippines and came to this place specifically to Regina Treaty for I am a daughter

sister and auntie. I'm a parent, mom, and I like to make art that has to do with gathering people in spaces. Sometimes in spaces they're not usually accustomed to gathering in or to gather people who don't usually gather in art spaces. I like to create space for really good stories.

for really good laughs and really good crying ⁓ and to enjoy really good food. like, those are the optimal conditions for me for gathering. Comfortable seating, it smells good, there's good food and there's some really interesting, intriguing stories and great metaphors. Lately, I've been writing a bio that says, you my art practice, I find it's related to this image of

A: 1970

but it'll be all okay, we'll get there. So that's how I like to describe how I make art.

Nikko Snyder (: 07:24

That's amazing. I think of you as a theater artist, but maybe more so a community builder. To me, those two are things are really enmeshed in how I think of you. And I also really think of you as an educator because, and mostly because when I lived in Regina with my kids, I got the chance, they got the chance to... ⁓

be with you in art making spaces for children. And yeah, so I got, guess I got to experience that firsthand, you as a, as an educator of my children, but yeah, this community, this theater based work, community based work and working a lot with people in community and educating or working with children. So can you talk a little bit about how those, is that how you see yourself? That's how I see you.

Kris Alvarez (: 08:21

That's interesting Nikko. Yeah, I okay live and I'm relate it to this metaphor that I share about this set 80s mom in a two-tone station wagon, but she's got her own special Playlist of music on a cassette. She's wearing a bandana and her hair is messy ⁓ I like to think of that image because What that tells me is that I have a spirit of play play is a huge part of my ⁓ Compartment like I want to play

I love to play, there isn't enough time in the world to play, and there isn't enough real, true, authentic support from the adults in the room about play. Adults like to say, play is important, but I think it's BS. They don't really believe it. It's because how could they? Because this is a capitalist world that runs on a very tight schedule. ⁓ And so I feel like I'm constantly fighting for space to play.

And that's with young people and old people, people my age, non-performers, non-actors and artists, but also with artists as well. And when it comes to educating, I constantly like throw back, no, no, no, I'm not an educator, I'm not a teacher. I like to find pathways, I like to create space, I like to guide people, but in a spirit of play. Play, to me, it's like serious play is so beautiful and scrumptious.

and we don't get enough of that. So that's what I fight for. And also ⁓ kindness reigns supreme. If I am a teacher and if I'm teaching really cool things about acting or creating theater, it doesn't matter how much I know, if I'm a jerk, I'm a jerk. And so for me, kindness is paramount along with serious play to create a space where people can really try to be themselves, try to like locate. And it all does come from

my growing up in the 70s and 80s of being a person who comes into a room and feels uncomfortable and feels like I don't have a spot, I don't have a space, and there isn't a place for me to play because everyone wants to know who I am and why I look the way I look. And I think that's where that spirit really comes from. I also think it comes from parents who are very playful. I was lucky to grow up with both parents in a house who could play.

who understood that it's kind of fun to be silly, to play a game, to look at the world through a game. And that's really, I think, where I come from in terms of what I give to someone like your kids when I hang out with them or even with older folks when they want to play. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yeah. I really don't think people trust it. I think they say play is good and then they craft.

Nikko Snyder (: 11:05

Yeah, absolutely.

Kris Alvarez (: 11:13

something that still has an agenda of learning. And I maintain that if you just play, like for shits and giggles, play. That kid who at every age they are, they're gonna learn something. Something probably pretty meaningful and pretty practical and helpful in their life skills. so when I say that, I mean like when we say let's play, but then we have...

rules of engagement we bring in that are adult, through an adult lens, I sometimes think that really doesn't do the service to not just the young person, but to the artist or to me. If I'm not really doing it at the level of finding my playful spirit, if I'm just pretending or performing play, which I think a lot of adults do with kids, they perform in. ⁓ I'm a performer, but I'm lousy at being a...

Like, and when I'm not on stage, I'm not a really good liar. Like, if I don't like something or I'm not having fun, you can tell on my face. I'll be like, okay, this is not that one. My kids know it and I know it now.

Nikko Snyder (: 12:25

resonates with me the idea that yeah, there's, there are barriers to play in our culture. And as an adult whose wishes I had more playfulness in my world, it's all I, all I feel is barriers to that. And, and it's really hard to, to bring that in. So yeah, maybe that's why I just, value that. I value your philosophy and your practice. It's not just a philosophy, you're the way you embody that. I really, really appreciate that.

Kris Alvarez (: 12:54

Well, it's how we like it really is. I feel like ideally how we learn the most optimally is when like the setting feels comfortable. I have some good snacks and then you make me laugh. And then I usually cry a little bit at some point because you made me laugh. So like those things are not to me, ⁓ a secret formula. Like people often are like, Kris, how do you do it with kids? ⁓ like how, how can you be with them so well? And they like so drawn to you. And I'm like,

I think often it's almost not selfish, but like I'm coming from a more self-centered place. Like I'll be like, what's the story I like? I don't want to share a story that I think is good for them or good for learning or same with playing. Like, you know, I've and not to say I'm perfect at this, should be really clear. I bring all this up because as I become a parent and continue to unlearn things and try to learn new things, it's like, ⁓ right.

Even I'm setting up, like if we're doing Make Believe Me and my young ones when they were much younger, playing with Barbies. I am a feminist. I am a person who wants the patriarchy to settle down and step back. But in Barbies, I'd be playing and I'd be like trying to create these really great positive models. My Barbie wants to do, like, know, just performance playing and the kids like.

They're kind like, okay, but who are you gonna date or what are you gonna wear? And I'd like, well, that's not important to me. And they'd see right through that. They'd be like, come on, what's Mad, what's Mids gonna wear? Like, we don't care what you're thinking about doing at school right now. Right now we're picking out outfits to go to the restaurant. And I'm like, right, like get over yourself, Alvarez. You don't have to teach them something every moment. And actually I'm gonna teach something very valuable when I pick out the outfit I want.

and freely play that restaurant scenario with the Barbie. Because that kid beside me will understand more about me, about who I really am. Like, that's pretty valuable. Versus a lesson about identity.

Nikko Snyder (: 15:03

Yeah.

So I'm curious then, I know like your kids are older now, I think they're 17 and 20. Yeah. You, when they were younger, you homeschooled them and that, and had them sort of really close, kept them close. Yeah. And also, I guess I'll note like in every play-based kids activity that my kids got to be part of with you, your kids were also there engaged in it as well. So I would love like that's just.

of, I guess again, how I have perceived your practice and your parenting in the world is that, your kids have always been there and they've always been like integrated into your world, into your creative life. I would love it if you could talk a little bit about parenting and I guess your approach to parenting over the years and that's, you've had babies to grownups now, young grownups, that you're parenting. But yeah.

I would love to hear just about the evolution of your parenting and also, I guess, how that's informed you as an artist and how you as an artist has informed you as a parent.

Kris Alvarez (: 16:20

That's big, that's good. Thank you for that question. It's rich. No, it's so lovely. Cause I don't often get chances to think that through and articulate it. So if anyone had come back in time and talked to me before the babies were born and said, you're going to homeschool, I would have laughed so hard, so hard. I would have peed my pants laughing. And it all happened as things do in most of my life. think this

This is a thing that most people observe, but you know, it just happened the way the conditions were the right conditions. And deciding to homeschool was a village decision, not just my decision. And it was always really important to me that I felt free to continue to make art and work and help provide for this house and this family. So if my partner Eric or...

or if any of the kids or if I felt every year we would assess, is this working? Do any of us want out? And I think that's the case with the first learning of making theater art for me is just like, yeah, like what is the buy-in for everyone that's in the room? And can we find a common language that brings us to an agreement that can live and breathe and change? And so I learned that in parenting early on about.

Right, it's gonna shift. It might not stay the same ever in a day, in a month, in a year. ⁓ With homeschooling, it gave me an opportunity because I think there's some of many things. I'm an immigrant kid who grew up here and my mom and dad both had to work. My mom and dad are both really honorary full-time artists who got here and had to have Canadian experience and had to make money. And so they did not make art full-time like I get to.

And what that meant was they were both working and I was one of those kids when I was old enough to stay home, which in the 70s and 80s was a little bit earlier and younger, but I was able to take care of myself when my mom had to go to work. And as soon as these two young people dropped into my world, into our world here, it was really clear to me that I wanted to spend more time with them than most society allows for or makes normal.

came an independent artist in: 2017

And I identify that as official and independent artist identity because I stopped trying to find other jobs and I applied for a grant for money for a project. So that's how I identify it. Before that, I was still an artist. I did a lot of self-producing. I would work with community partners or families that I love like Fada Dance where I'd be like, hey, you need a skit, I'll do it. Or do you need me to MC or?

So when I had kids and wanted to return to making art or at least being in artful spaces, I decided, why don't I start offering a little kid or early years drama music thing and this way I can have my kids with me because they're little and I want to learn more about them. So in hindsight, I know what I was doing was crafting something.

that was all streamlined where like I can have my young ones here, I can do a little bit of artful stuff, I can learn more about what it means for me to be a parent as well as an artist. I didn't know that in the moment I knew I needed to get back into some kind of work, make some type of gainful thing. I knew I wanted to go back to an artful world, not back to just an office job or as I had before or a service job.

And I wanted my kids nearby because they weren't going to be little for long. That said, when they were under seven, they were tiring as fuck. And I also wanted space from them a lot. ⁓ so, you know, I can remember in Montreal before we moved back here, when my husband would come home, I would do this thing like the sheepdog and the coyote and Looney Tunes. And I'd be holding the baby and I'd be like, look,

Here's me punching the clock, Eric, it's your turn, bye bye. So like when they were much younger, I didn't wanna spend all the time with them, let me be clear. I needed also time to take breaks, rest, bite. But as they got a bit older, and I always call it the era of when kids can pour their own cereal and turn on the TV, I could have a little more breathing room, and that's in self care. And that's something I learned early on, was like, ⁓ self care sucks.

I hate doing it for myself, let alone for four people. Fuck that. I'm not doing that. How can I make these wild beings learn to do their own stuff sooner than later? That's where I come from, okay? And I know, and of course in kindness and in a way that's safe, but that's what I wanted. I'm like, how can I have them do some other things? Because it's hard. Like self care is already safe.

So yeah, I took that time and I was lucky to have that possibility. And that is many factors in the village, including my spouse. He was like, yes, stay home with them. I also value the importance of one parent being around when the kids are under seven. I also had, when we moved back here, then I slowly had the help from my parents.

I also had the Globe Theatre and ⁓ my friend Shana, who was my colleague at the time, my boss, who was willing to be like, you want to put an early years thing together, I'd love to see that. So it was all these factors. And then through that work and through I realized homeschooling would be something we could do. It really was a time of like, if I could put it on my CV, I would as like part of my artist training.

I didn't go to a conservatory. did not complete a university degree in fine arts, a performance degree at a conservatory. I did it through this homeschooling experience. That's how I learned to do the kind of art making I wanted to do, which, you know, was back down to make believe some really good stories, serious play, and finding a way to make a group of people come together.

whether they're on stage or watching to be part of this room that feels special, that feels like, wow, we don't get to do this very often. And also a place that feels like home-like, a place that feels like my body is comfortable here. And those are all responses to my own, I think, healing as an immigrant kid who felt like I wasn't in a lot of comfortable spaces for whatever reason, you know, just felt.

Like I was always dislocated. And I bring that into my work, because I know how painful that can be. I, yeah, very early on just realized that it'd be fun to make that experience and that space for other people who are like me, who get uncomfortable in a space because of who they are based on class privilege or their body and their faces. Does that make sense?

Nikko Snyder (: 24:26

Absolutely. Yeah. And I'd love to hear more about that. I mean, you've talked about what that experience has been for you in your life of being an immigrant, not feeling comfortable in spaces or not feeling like for whatever reason that you are, that you fit there or that you belong there. Or I know that that's been a huge part of your, of your art as well is creating.

creating that space, creating those connections, creating that representation in your work. I'd love to hear a bit about that. mean, the burnt sienna concept and this concept, this identity of brownness. I'm going to interrupt myself here to give you a little more context about what I'm talking about. Burnt sienna began as live dinner party conversations between Kris and guests who grew up identifying as brown in Regina. Over time, the format evolved into a variety show.

e. Burnt sienna wrapped up in: 2022

this identity of brownness and as sort of a point of connection and the diversity within what that means and also, you know, the connection of what that looks like, especially in Regina is such a kind of strangely super diverse and also like very segregated kind of weird little community, right? So I'd to hear about that aspect of your work and as you say, kind of healing that for yourself.

Kris Alvarez (: 26:11

Yeah, I started that practice of burnt sienna, which kind of embodies my whole practice really in 2018. And it was because, you know, this older white gay man who's been an artist for a long time and had lots of really great, has a great body of work became this mentor for me and said to me, you know, what do you want to make? you know, and.

I know that the reason that I first started making the art was because I just always have wanted to perform. I love performing, period. The chance to make something about my own experiences growing up here was both a desire because I've always been curious about it. Like why do I look like this? And people go, you're not really Filipino. So there's that. The other part is

the opportunity, like knowing, I know that's not around on stage, but I know people aren't talking about it. And so I could do that. The other factor of making Burnt Sienna was I wasn't getting hired to do stuff on stage yet. was feeling that feeling of, I don't want to go and play a countess in an English play. I don't feel like that right now.

And so this is where burnt sienna comes from. then being given by, as I said, by this, Joey would love that I call him an old white gay man, you know, like he was my guide, my mentor, because he was making art for many, many, many years. And here's this person of such great exquisite craftsmanship in his art.

Nikko Snyder (: 28:01

Quick aside, you may well be curious about this old gay white man that Kris is talking about. It's actually Joey Trombley, who is an award-winning Saskatchewan-born playwright and theatre artist and parent who has temporarily stepped aside from the theatre to raise his daughter and run a hotel in Bistro in Bucerias, Mexico.

Kris Alvarez (: 28:18

to actually ask me like, what do you wanna make? And what do you dream of making is like, whoa, for anyone who's been othered and feels like they don't belong, for someone to say that is already huge. And that access was like, and for that person to be like, I'll help you get a grad, write a grad, I'll help support that. I'll give you space, go to my cabin, write the stuff you wanna write.

That on its own was enough to feel burnt sienna of like, what can I do with the show to give space to people who never get to say something? And so it was very important to me to find other people in the city that weren't necessarily performers or artists or even high profile, that they were people, just people who lived here doing many different kinds of things. And the fact that they identified as Brown, because I identified as Brown and to hear their version.

It started selfishly, Nikko, as a one-woman play that I hated. I wrote it and I hated it because it was, to me, trivial to have one tiny perspective about being brown. Mine. It felt hokey. I was like, is this being Filipino? Because now I'm realizing I'm not the only Filipino. It was really humbling learning of like, right, I want to break apart or have time to show.

that it's not a monolithic thing to be brown, that there's more to it than like, and because it's so tiring, because you see it in the world all the time and even more now, but like, I wanted to bring on many indigenous guests because they're not all Cree or they're not all urban natives as some of them would say, or they're not all living off the land or like, because that's, know, we wanna make people this one thing.

And I also just like a good time as I mentioned at the beginning. Play is so important to me and kindness is paramount. So those things combined into that kind of a filter of a bird sienna, a beautiful brown filter, is ⁓ easy for me. And it's also easy for me in terms of a variety show when I broke apart the one woman play and Joey said, you don't want a traditional theater thing. I'm like, no, I don't.

y. Because, and this was like: 2018

I know a lot of people feel that way, for different class reasons, ⁓ gender identity reasons, as well as color. I don't know, there's many, many reasons and I'm so lucky that I had the curiosity, but also that support. And so Bernstianna became the thing of like, well, Kris, how do you put it forward? You got that support to start it. It's propelled you to be able to work full time as an artist right now.

So how do you use that for access to other people? How do you help? So, you know, the thing about community builder that you called me earlier, Nikko, that just, you know, with privilege comes obligation to serve a community. I'm not saying that in the way that I don't like to do it. I just mean, that wasn't the first thing. I wasn't like, I'm gonna do a show that tackles racism. Uh-uh. I'm gonna do a show where I can be fucking funny.

and I can be funny about the things that have been hurtful to me. So I can throw those things away finally, and then bring in new people who can also share those kinds of party jokes that we have when you're othered for whatever position or privilege reason. When you're othered, you have your party tricks and you can share them pretty easily. And that's what I found with everyone that I invited. And then what I noticed about the audience was like, people kind of...

are craving a place that's, for lack of a better word, another version of a church where there's communion, but it's not based on an institutionalized thought. It's about, I want to be with other people to remind myself I'm not alone about the pain and the joys of life. And I want to see in someone else's eyes who looks really different than me, but I want to see how we're so similar because we both like things that are fried.

in oil or we like we both like big brothy soups but different right but different yeah yeah ⁓ and i think all of that returning for me is about returning for me to go i want to take care that in my own body because then i'll be more peaceful and more kind and then because i have young people that i need to take care of that are really tiring and annoying

It's that old adage, right? Like you gotta put the mask on before you. That's my version of like, yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 33:39

Yeah, and I would love to maybe fast forward a little bit to hear about your more recent experiences with that parenting journey. Children grow up and then they have, it's a different, parenting takes on a different.

Kris Alvarez (: 33:55

Yeah, let's do it. Let's go fast forward. Let's get in the DeLorean of motherhood and.

Nikko Snyder (: 34:03

Before we change gears, I just want to pause for a moment to thank you for listening. Parenting Creative is my labor of love. If what we're exploring resonates with you, I hope you'll take a few moments to support the podcast and get involved in the parenting creative community. The best possible ways to do that, talk us up to your friends and leave us a five-star review with a few kind words. And if you want more parenting creative in your life, sign up for our free email newsletter to get sneak peeks and guest announcements, behind the scenes stories and deeper reflections on each episode.

You can find links to all of this in our show notes. Now back to Kris.

Kris Alvarez (: 34:36

So, real quick, they finish grade eight, both of them take, you know, they're three years apart, my two young ones, and they go into high school. homeschoolers, who homeschool K to eight, that's the biggest experiment. Like, did I mess them up? Let's see, throw them in. What's the litmus test say now? Thing one and thing two, they're both okay. They understood how to go through the world. They understood how to pick up the textbook.

All the stuff that I was like, okay, they're going to be okay. Math, okay, math, maybe it's not so great, but it's going to be fine. after high into later high school, the pandemic happens. They're back at home. Everyone's saying that they're homeschooling, even though they're crisis schooling. We're like, we've got this. We've been doing this. We're okay. And what I mean by okay is just we're okay or comfortable with not producing enough stuff.

Which is always that fear I think in school like we're not doing enough, but we're okay with it. We've had practice We go back to school Zoe my oldest she graduates and Yeah, so here I am as a parent Learning about a new shift and going huh? Like remembering when they were three and six if only they could pour their own cereal and turn on the TV It'll be fine. This is you know, so coming to teenage life. I'm like, okay once they're both teens I'll be able to like

full time really get into this career of art and like maybe other versions of it and they're on their own. Nope, totally not, not true at all. They need me more than ever. my God, really? Like this is the truth I'm dealing with? they need me more than ever? They're like toddlers again, but with like adult parts like boobs and hormones? Great. This is gonna be so easy.

They are identifying with queerness, great, I can handle that. Yeah, I can speak to the truth in my gut that like is almost relieved when they date other people who identify as women. Because I'm like, at least they won't get pregnant. Like that's a truth. But you know, like also being okay with them, you know, dating other people too who identify as men, young men.

The world just gets, yeah, it becomes huge again, like when they're toddlers. But now instead of like crossing the street and going to bed on time, it's like who you sleep with and what kind of drugs will you take and what do I need to be careful? And so it's just a big awakening. And but humbly, it's also like the universe reminding me like, ⁓ Kris, it's still the same. It's still you learning to let go.

It's still you learning to grieve this thing called like time passing. It's still you learning to understand you cannot manage everything and do not micromanage everything either. You will be a total bitch and your kids will hate you or they will keep lying to you. So you need to push yourself to be brave enough to be honest with them. That's what I feel like I'm at now.

I like to think about it like armor because I have armor when I go out into the world as a woman, a brown person, like I have that armor or that protection. And as a parent, from the get go of homeschooling ⁓ throughout, I feel like I'm constantly just dismantling and taking down pieces of that because I thought to be a parent meant I have to be strong, wise, in control.

and be able to take care. I have, Nikko, I have fierce matriarchal energy. I'm a Capricorn son with a Leo moon and I come from an immigrant mom who is a Leo. So there is like fierce desire to want to do this. But all my learning since they were born and since especially homeschool and through any illnesses that I've had or anything.

It's just always like nope. It's like let go of that grasp like hold it lightly and unconditionally love them it's the same thing now and and It became really boldly clear a couple years ago my youngest was diagnosed with bipolar and It happened very you know how it is felt suddenly in the moment in hindsight

We knew that she was struggling because a lot of young people were after the pandemic. And I keep hearing it that the age group of 14 to 18 right now are really messed up from those times that they were off online and they were back at school with masks and didn't understand how to relate to people because it was fearful. There was that fear of killing their grandparents if they got too close or if they went to parties.

Like that's where our kids were coming from. two years ago, I'm about five days away from going to Europe to do an art project. And that's when my youngest says, I need to go to the hospital. Like that was my start of learning of this next chapter with mental health and being shocked and being like, what, are you sure? Let's just go see your therapist. Let's just take a moment. Let's just drink some water.

Like literally saying all the things and in hindsight going back and looking at myself and being like, that's ridiculous, Kris. Like, let's take a breath and drink some water. That's not gonna work right now. Anyway, humbling is this life called parenting. Yeah, five days away from going to Europe. And again, just like all the other big decisions we've made in our family, in our house, I couldn't.

make the decision to go there and continue to go to this project without everyone's blessing or support or agreement. And it was really clear that ⁓ my young one said it, you gotta go. I will hate it if you don't go. And my partner said it and he's like, we've got this, we're gonna be okay. But yeah, that was my beginning learning of this new chapter of how to be an honest, loving,

guardian and to know that actually she's got it. This young person, she's got to take care of a lot of it. I'm going to just be here to pad it a bit. ⁓ Yeah, that's what you want me to talk about with that. What would be useful to share?

Nikko Snyder (: 41:46

So the things that really stood out to me when we talked the last time around this journey of parenting someone who is navigating a serious mental illness. some ways that you put it. So learning so much about your capacity to love through this and this releasing, yeah, this releasing of control. You said you have no control over these two beings. Why would you even want to?

And then you talked about you and Eric, I think joking about this idea of parenting being custodial. And I would love for you to talk about that. This sort of like maintaining the building, maintaining the structure. And that that's maybe all we can do as parents, especially as, as they get older or maybe, maybe it's always, but this sort of, ⁓ yeah, release release of control.

and the impact that that has had on your capacity to love and love unconditionally.

Kris Alvarez (: 42:46

Yeah, so this next chapter that we're all navigating in the last couple of years, it's not just about my young one's mental health. It has to do with the sum of all, like there's a sum of many things. There's my older young one who is also in that world of like, I've come out of that really weird pandemic and now I'm supposed to succeed. I'm supposed to thrive.

I'm supposed to narrow down the thing. we all parents have, we've gone through that 19, 20 year old life of like, what am I going to be? Yeah. But there's something else about that. What am I going to be when you come out of a pandemic where you're like, why aren't the adults asking me, how are you doing? Or like, do you want to just be, which is what I'm fighting for, for her, which is very feeling like it's against the grain in this world. But.

this is something, going against the grain, undoing, unlearning is something we've been doing since they were homeschooling. I've been doing when I was sick with thyroid cancer, when they were little. It's just, or when I was managing and understanding my brother's sobriety, like this life is about practice. It's about being. And every couple of moments I get to a place, you know, of feeling like, wow, look at me.

with my capacity to love and the universe is like, okay, you're good with that, you're ready to practice again. Here's a harder version or a new version. Maybe it's not harder, it's just brand new. It's othered and foreign to me. And so when this happened a couple of years ago, I was like, right, these young people still need me. Even if I want to be free and go travel and do all the things they need me.

And so what does that need and how do I do it? And the capacity to love, like learning in the last couple of years has been, I think the hardest and the sweetest because they are older and I can see in their eyes the things that are resonating and I can also see in their eyes when they kind of relax because they can see that I'm.

Like I'm looking at them for real. ⁓ I'm looking at them like soul to soul. I'm looking at them and saying like, I know this is shitty. This thing is shitty that you're going through. And I don't have the answers for it. And I don't have the solutions. And I will never. All I have is like love. I can hug you. I can listen.

I cannot judge you. And then realizing how important those things are actually, to be a parent who can love, listen, and not judge. That on its own has been like...

has really ⁓ pushed my heart to like the capacity to love, to be that real with my young people to say, it really is okay if you don't know what you're doing in your life. It's really okay that this new condition that you're learning to understand seems crappy because you just want to go do fun things and be normal. And we all know that that

I want to just have fun and be normal. It doesn't matter if you're 17 or you're 74. You always crave that. You want to belong. You want to just be regular. You just want to be. And the more I could really swallow that as opposed to be like, no, I have to like help prop them up or I got to all the different modalities of

Nikko Snyder (: 46:51

find

Kris Alvarez (: 46:55

of therapy or healing or I have to, the more I could just let go and be like, yeah, like all you want to do is like one class to do that one credit and you want to smoke and you want to watch TV more than usual. Okay. Okay. That's okay. I like, I can be okay with that. I need to be okay with that. Or you don't want to go to university and you want to work.

or you don't know if you're on work, maybe you just want to travel a bit and maybe you'll be broke. Yeah, okay. And I think this world of social media makes that so hard because on the social media it's like, look at me, I'm this and I do it so well. Or look at me, I'm this and I know everything, all these things so well. I can produce, produce everything. And I know that world because I'm a performer. have to...

share things out loud often. Yeah, so being a parent at this moment with young adults or young women, I'm so lucky that I get to just like kind of lay down that armor. Like I feel like I'm laying down the last bits of real armor about being like, and showing them my humanity, like showing them like, yeah, I can't, sometimes this is too hard. And I know when they were five,

And when they're nine, I showed them this too. But it just resonates different when you have a young adult's eyes looking at you and you can really see them register and you can see kind of that wisdom because they're getting older and they're like, it makes me so happy that I can see that they're going to, they are going to carry that forward. I haven't spent time trying to teach them something. I've just modeled and I've been vulnerable.

And wow, they're going to take that forward. That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not about me, right? Like that whole lesson in life, it's not, this world is not about me. I'm just one little thing. It's the same with relating to a young person. Like it's not about me. Like, you know, in terms of what I want, like they've got their own thing going on. And yes, they need to be safe. And yes, I don't want them to be jerks. Those are always still true.

whether they're three or 17. The thing with mental health that's so tricky is, as it's said all the time, but I don't think it's said enough, there really is a stigma. There is a condescending fucking attitude towards it. And I've seen that in all the other isms and things, whether it's sexism or racism. We say things, the world says, oh yeah, play is important. Oh yeah, your health is important. Oh yeah.

women's rights are important, but then we're showing our kids the opposite by who we vote for and how we act online on social media, how we make money look like the most important thing or status. I don't know, there's certain things that, I can't help but feel this feeling that I felt long ago when the kids were little. The first time Zoe learned to read, we're in the grocery store and she looks at a magazine, People Magazine, and on the front the title says,

she reads it because she's just learning to read and she says, does that say my butt won't stop growing, mom? Oh, shit. And it's an article about some fucking Kardashian, okay? And I'm like, what? And I look and I'm like, yes, yes, Zoe, that's what that says. And I remember that was one of those landmarks for me of like, wow, what do kids think adults are up to, right? Yeah. So

I bring that up because it's just to me always one of those landmarks when they're younger, like, the kids are cluing in that we don't have it together and we're actually messing it up a lot. Yeah. You know, and I'm saying that intellectually, but actually to like to actually install that into your parenting body, it's pretty tricky, right? I still catch myself trying to be the adult, trying to be the parent. It's not worth it. In the long run, it won't be worth it for me.

And also for that person, that young person, right? That said, boundaries have become everything. So it reminds me again of when they were little. Like I've always been, ⁓ some people call it like a more free parent. Like I know like when it comes to candy, I've always been like, go hog wild, but do me a favor, if you start feeling sick, that's always been my rule. Like at Halloween, if you start feeling sick, stop, can you stop?

And sometimes that works and sometimes they throw up. But I'm not the kind of parent that wants to control that. I really am not. That's the same with parenting potty training. I never potty trained. When we homeschooled, I didn't teach them phonics. I just read a lot and they saw picture books. again, I'm not saying this all to say this is the only way to parent. This is how I needed to parent so that I wasn't a bag.

so that I wasn't a bitch. Like bottom line, I knew myself enough to go, I don't want to manage that because then I'll be really mean. Yeah, and so the same thing happens now as they're young adults where I'm like, if you're going to smoke weed, which is not good for your young mind, just know there's boundaries. I'm not going to give you money for that. But I also know that you're going to do what you're going to do.

So I want to make sure I can provide you a safe ride home or I can please let me know where you actually are Like the real address ⁓ And it you know, if there's drugs happening, please don't take anything that's a powder like like I'm having to do those conversations and and for and to also know while I say it The young people in my life will go. Okay, but there's a chance they could lie or just not actually follow that and so how

Can I sit with that? Can I let go? Because I can feel my body or my, not my body, my heart want to grip and attach. And then I'm like, no, no. Actually, the more I can put space between my fingers of grip, the more then I know I'll be better. And also they will, because they'll know I got to do this. It's up to me to figure it out. Mom is giving me that trust.

It's complex though, right?

Nikko Snyder (: 53:55

It is complex. yeah, you're talking about your, you know, this need to, to release, to lay down that, that the armor of parenting. I love that image. And you're also, you know, you talked a little bit about, it's not about, it's not about you. It's about them. It's their journey. Also, I know there it is, this is your journey too, right? And I, I know you told me that you are working on some art about

your journey through this part of life and your child's mental health struggles. And so you are making art about that. And I would love to hear about that and why you're doing that, what you're learning from that. I would love to hear about that part of it being your journey and your exploration and your healing through this and learning and.

growing your capacity to love and all these things. Can tell me about that project?

Kris Alvarez (: 54:56

Yeah, I totally can. Yeah, so you know, I think being an art maker like I am, it's a tightrope, a fine line of being selfish, self-centered and serving. And I try to take care of the balance of it because I can only make art from where I'm interested in it or like driven or passionate about it, which means it's going to be somewhat self-reflective, right?

And then to look out and be like, how does that reflect in the world or how can other people? So a little while ago, one of the times that my young one had to be at the adolescent psychiatric ward here, I started thinking about how many times I'm in the car to go back and forth to go ⁓ meet up and visit her or to bring her a snack or bring her a new vape because she needs one or whatever, you know. And then

I was also thinking when I'm traveling in the car in those back and forth times how...

there's this tension and then after I see her I get in the car and I usually cry a little bit. I went on a trip to Saskatoon for a project a year ago or I can't anyway in this last couple of years and when I got in the car to go on this trip to Saskatoon for the project it was another time that ⁓ she needed extra support ⁓ at the hospital and

being on Highway 11, it's the morning, and I've just gone over to say bye to her and bye to my family here at home. And whether it's the way the sky looks, because it's so beautiful here on Treaty Four, going into Treaty Six in Saskatchewan, ⁓ time of day. And then I put on a good playlist of good music ⁓ that I've been listening to. It gave me a moment to just really release.

and cry and grieve or and do whatever I needed to do let go of some things before I got into the project and I really treasured that and I was like huh I got curious about it and so I'm writing a show right now and it's called I do my best crying in the car and and I know that that's not something that's only special to me I know a lot of people feel probably that way and I'm curious again like I am with burnt sienna or other things I've made where I'm like

What are the other versions, like what are the versions other people have of crying in the car? Is it just when it's on a big highway? Is it when it's parked? Because I've had those moments when I'm just parked. Or is it that night that feels the nicest or the most optimal? What are the ideal conditions for crying in the car or for grieving, basically? Yeah, like, you know, I know my young one has to grieve a lot of things by taking on a new...

part of her world, which is this condition of bipolar. We all know that feeling when we take on a new job or a new role or new identity, a new condition, we have to say goodbye or let go of some ideals or things we have about what it's gonna be like, right? And that's what this project's about. It's like ⁓ giving myself a place that's like a balm. ⁓

To be like okay with the way it is. I think beyond the mental health that we're learning about right now in our family, that is how the world is right now. Like there's a lot to take in. And I think we're not creating enough sanctuaries for ourselves to just let some stuff go and grieve. ⁓ And I feel that for my young ones. So the projects, me,

And it's also, I've invited Zoe, my older young one, if she wants to dance. She's a really great mover, both of them are. And ⁓ I said, kind of want this, like, I want it to have movement and music and a bit of text that I perform, I fear like the movement of my brain, the movement of my mind in the car.

Yeah, so that's something we're tinkering with and we're going to dig into it this actually this next month a little bit more. Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 59:33

Thank you, I can't wait to hear how that evolved.

Kris Alvarez (: 59:35

I shared a little bit of it at a conference recently at an Arts Alliance conference that I was part of because I just really wanted to kind of pierce the air with it. And I had many people come up and say that really resonates with me like big time. I often like to throw something that's, ⁓ I said, it's not even half baked. I said to them in the room that morning, I just decided the night before, no, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna share a bit of this work.

And I told them, it's not half baked, it's like batter. It's like so uncooked right now. But I like to do that in the world. And Bird Sienna, when I first threw it on stage, it was half baked. was like, wanted like, I find myself doing that with work where I craft something and sometimes I take time to craft it bit longer, but some of these questions I like to throw out into public right away to just kind of see.

Am the only one? Is there a lot of people feeling this or what? I want to know. Yeah. And with mental health, it's really, it's like racism. Like people are always like, yeah, it's really important to diversify who you hang out with. It's important to diversify your board, but it's really important to play with your kids. It's these statements again, where I'm like, are you really buying into it? And I'm not just saying it to the public or out to community. I'm saying it to myself.

I know when I say it out loud, I'm actually challenging myself, Nikko. And so when I say like, do you really buy into like mental health is a real health thing, because I had to in the last couple of years, again, let go and a little bit more, but also let go of certain ideas, right? In the last year, I would say to my young one when she's feeling really low or bad about the fact she's got this thing. ⁓

I was like, you know, if you had asthma and you had an asthma attack, no one would be like, why did you have that asthma attack? So when you're depressed or manic, when you decide self harm is something that you need to do, because in that moment, that's what happens. When you say sorry after, I just want you to think about that. You wouldn't say sorry if you had an asthma attack. You would just.

try to be kind to yourself, take care, rest, do all the good things. Yeah, you have to do things to take care, but if that happens, if something flares up, it's part of this condition, this illness. It's not you bringing that on. And I do want to speak to that boundaries thing. Like boundaries are important to me to love unconditionally, to boldly try to ⁓ say something on stage that maybe people aren't saying out loud.

to see a young person and truly feel like I let down my armor, these are things I do in spaces that I know are safe enough. I still have that armor and I put it on to go out in the world as a parent, not just as a human being. ⁓ It is useful to have all those things. Those are boundaries. But in the space with me and this young person, can I release that fully so that I can get a Christmas card from her?

like this last year that she just writes so little, like a little bit of Merry Christmas, but there's also a, I'm just so glad that we've gotten to know each other better, You know, it's like the statement I hear in that. And I'm like, ⁓ in that card, I'm like, to me, that's just the world. It's like, ⁓ like, you know, my being human is really allowing you to be human. That's really cool. And that's my practice. That's my art practice too, you know.

I want to be human in front of people on stage so that they can be human in the dark and go, yeah, right. This is allowable. Yeah, allowance is a big word in my life. I'm like allowance, right? Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:03:46

Thank you for sharing this part of your family's journey. I really appreciate it. You have said that people don't necessarily talk about mental health enough and that, you know, there are, we talking about it honestly or, you know, on that subject of like, we don't, we maybe aren't talking about this enough or engaging deeply enough or honestly enough with this. Do do you want to add anything?

else about that. know it was important for you to want to share some of this and that, yeah, for it to be something that we're speaking about.

Kris Alvarez (: 1:04:24

Yeah, thanks for that. That's think I've shared plenty but I do feel There's a tension for me always as an artist slash human being who wants to be active in in this world of change Where I'm like I want you know I use my platform often to be vocal about what's going on in the world that I feel is not really helpful or is ⁓ scary or sad and and one thing I

I really, in this two years, the government we have and what they are not doing to provide better healthcare in general, we all know about in terms of mental health, it's pretty dire. And I do want to express how ⁓ when we're in the halls at the emergency or when we're at Child and Youth Services, there's me and my partner.

Both parents are there because we aren't struggling with intergenerational trauma. We have grandparents who are on standby and aunts and uncles of my kids who are ready to also help. And that's why we're able to be squeaky and loud when we get into those rooms when at the emerge down the block from us where they try to convince us to take home the suicidal teen because there's not enough beds. They won't say that, but they'll say things like,

You you have such a great community of care. It's great to practice and not come here for help all the time. Like we worry about your young one being institutionalized or having an institutional experience as opposed to working on it at home and in community. Like these are the words that we're getting from a doctor and a merge because frankly, they don't have any room.

And I just want to say these things out loud because I wonder about other parents who worry about trying to advocate and how far you have to go. Sometimes you have to go far. We've literally, I've had to say out loud to the doctor, I can't guarantee her safety if you send us back home right now. And that's uncomfortable and painful to have to say. we spend time with our young ones afterwards debriefing those things saying, please no.

That's not completely true. Like we would take care of you. We'd make sure. that is how we have to wedge our way in to make sure you actually get a bed.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:06:58

And not all families have that, have those resources. Not everybody can advocate to that extent.

Kris Alvarez (: 1:07:03

This is what's heartbreaking to me is that that would be the case for some people that some young ones would actually just go home. Yeah. Because they come to the place with their cousin or their sister, or they come with one parent who can't handle it, has to go to work and has to does a double shift. Yeah. Right. So I'm speaking from the biggest place of privilege, I think, in terms of that, like where I have so much good support. So that part of it is scary to me for other people.

for other young ones. And yeah, I just wanted to name that because if there's anyone who listens who struggles with learning about mental health and has a young one who's struggling, that is the time, that's the test of my capacity to love that's been really hard too, is like open your mouth, Kris, in these institutions that don't feel that great sometimes.

Say no, no, no, no. No, this is what we need right now. We really need this Yeah But that's that's the job as a guardian and I'm glad that I have the yeah support privilege to do it Yeah, that's all I want to say about that. Okay

Nikko Snyder (: 1:08:17

Thank you.

Kris Alvarez (: 1:08:21

Haha, my nose is running.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:08:27

Thank you again for sharing.

If you or a young person in your life is struggling with mental health, know that you are not alone and that help is out there. If you are in crisis, you can call 9-8-8, ANYTIME, 24/7. You can also find the Canadian Mental Health Association online at cmha.ca or Youth Mental Health Canada at ymhc.ngo. ⁓

Nikko Snyder (: 1:09:09

That's where we're going to end the first part of my two-part conversation with Kris Alvarez. I want to extend another huge thank you to Kris for sharing her family's story and her unique perspectives on creative life and parenting life. Join us again in two weeks to hear more from Kris about giving back to her parents by implicating them in her art and pushing back against the pressure to compartmentalize by integrating the different parts of ourselves. I also want to thank you for tuning in. ⁓

If you make art while parenting or caregiving, I see you in all the glorious struggle and I'm glad you're here. And if you want more parenting creative in your life, make sure to follow us wherever you listen to podcasts so you never miss an episode. Follow us on social media or better yet, skip the billionaires and subscribe to our email newsletter at parentingcreative.com and in our show notes.

Before signing off, I want to thank Natural Sympathies for the use of their song, Hello, as the parenting creative theme song, and my partner in life, parenting and podcasting, Jeremy Sauer, for his audio wizardry to make this podcast sound so good. Parenting Creative is created and recorded with gratitude for the keepers of the land on the unceded and traditional territory of the Sinixt in the Slocan Valley. Thanks for listening and I'll talk to you soon.