Marya Folinsbee is Unapologetic in Art & Parenting

Marya Folinsbee (: 00:00

I reject the notion that we need to sacrifice other parts of identity in order to parent. And I think that we are made better parents by our allegiance to our own magic, our own desires, our own personalities. I'm certain of that, in fact.

Nikko Snyder (: 00:26

I'm Nikko Snyder and this is Parenting Creative, a podcast that explores the places where creative life and parenting collide and all the magic and mess that ensues. In our inaugural season, we're delving into the creative lives of parents making art that ranges from theater and music to poetry, journalism and craft. Our goal is to build community and connection for those living deep in the struggles of caring for others while at the same time prioritizing their own creative lives. If you'd like to hear more conversations about making art while parenting,

Please help grow our community by following Parenting Creative wherever you get your podcasts, leaving us a five-star review with a few kind words, and visiting parentingcreative.com to sign up for our email newsletter.

eater in Nelson, BC in spring: 2025

I've studied, facilitated, and performed in traditional Western and contemporary drama, clown, and physical theater, theater of the oppressed and more. I've also been schooled in motherhood by my own generous and demanding teacher babies. They've given me a whole new perspective on the art of clown. I believe in play as a powerful, transformative, healing gift, both to adults and to children. It's in play that we learn how to be and who we might want to be. Play is where we can imagine a different world and rehearse it into being. Here's my conversation with Playwright.

clown, teacher, theater artist, and parent, Marya Folinsbee.

Hi, Marya. Thanks for joining me.

Yeah, I just wanna welcome you to Parenting Creative and this is the first episode of the podcast that I am recording, so it's extra exciting.

Marya Folinsbee (: 02:28

Yay! Congratulations! Thanks for having me.

Nikko Snyder (: 02:30

Thank you. Yeah,

glad you could be here. Before we get started, I want to just talk a little bit about how we know each other. So we know each other like a few different ways. Like we're on the Parent Advisory Council at our kids' school and you, you know, were my kids' baseball coach and things like that. And we also have been in a writing group together and

That writing group isn't active at the moment, about probably, I guess it was about a year ago, we were meeting just like a few neighbor moms who write, we're meeting every couple of weeks. And yeah, that time was like the writing part was great. Writing together was super fun. But actually what was the most impactful for me about that experience was talking to other parents about

creative practice and creative process and hearing about how parents, other parents were creating, you know, time and finding energy to center their creative lives all while doing this wild parenting thing that we do and trying to raise kids in this kind of crazy world that we're in. So I would come away from those conversations really invigorated, energized, inspired.

And that was really actually the genesis of this idea of wanting to kind of have these conversations, like talk to other parents about creative life and, you know, how parenting informs their art and how art informs their parenting and just wanting to share those stories. So that's how this idea got started. And so I'm just really excited and delighted that

you and this is exactly what I was envisioning was having you as one of my first very first conversations. So just want to say again, welcome Marya Folinsbee to Parenting Creative. Really, really excited to get to talk to you.

Marya Folinsbee (: 04:36

Yeah, well, thank you. agree that talking about process, I'm always fascinated by it that that space was, I mean, there was lots of wonderful things about that writing group. But yeah, talking about process with other people and hearing their process and reflecting is very nourishing. And yeah, and not always something we actually think about, I think, or you know, there's not a lot of time for it.

Nikko Snyder (: 05:01

Yeah, that was a unique, a unique space for me to talk about ideas with adults, I guess.

Marya Folinsbee (: 05:09

what it comes down to. Uninterrupted adult conversations.

Nikko Snyder (: 05:16

Okay, so that was just my little kind of context about us and that we know each other. I guess I'll also mention that we are both, we're recording on the unceded and traditional territories of the Sinixt people and also want to invite you to, I guess, introduce yourself, like where are you coming from in the world and from your worldview and yeah, just introduce yourself to our listeners.

Marya Folinsbee (: 05:40

Yeah, okay. So yeah, my name is Marya Fallinsby. I'm a theater artist is how I usually describe myself and have been a creative person my whole life. And I think now it's only in the last 10 years or so that I've claimed theater artist as like an identity and part of like my life way, I guess, or, you know, that it's more than just a hobby. Although like the word professional is weird to me, but whatever.

I have lived on Sinixt təmxʷúlaʔxʷ for 12 years or so and came here by way of, well, I was born and grew up in Edmonton, Alberta, which is Treaty 6 territory and also known as Amiskwacîwâskahikan My ancestry is mostly from the British Isles and the Netherlands, but my family has been long time settlers in Canada.

g time. And then came here in: 2010

Nikko Snyder (: 07:00

What does that mean to you?

Marya Folinsbee (: 07:04

I mean, I think partially it's like getting paid to make art was something that never really happened to me before then. But mostly I would say it was like stepping into that identity in a public way and like claiming it versus it just being like something you kind of do for fun or, and maybe it's also about process and accountability that I feel like I have more accountability to myself and others in the work that I do and I don't feel as guilty about it.

now. Like it feels justified in some kind of a way, you know, where, yeah, there's like a legitimacy thing or a, this is integrated into my real life. It's not optional or amateur or something. Yeah. And I guess like that's also like, I've invested in it emotionally, financially, intellectually, whatever. And also other people have invested in me.

But yeah, like I said, in university and in high school, I went to a performing arts high school and in university I was always involved in theater and involved in performance, but it was never, I never thought of it as work at the time. And now I'm more able to call it work and not feel like an imposter. Not that I don't sometimes feel like an imposter, but.

Nikko Snyder (: 08:27

We all do probably. I love about you that you seem to just be very comfortable in your artist's identity. Like that is very much how I think of you and how I feel like you are in the world. So yeah, I love that. You've used the term theater artist. I know that I think of you as a playwright. I know that you perform your own shows. I've seen you kind of in more of a clowning.

Marya Folinsbee (: 08:29

Yeah, yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 08:52

kind of situation. Can you talk about your art practice a bit more about like how it's evolved themes that you explore? Yeah. Tell us a bit more.

Marya Folinsbee (: 09:01

The theater artist for me is like the umbrella, but it covers a lot of kinds of work. So I am also an arts administrator as another part of my work life. And I would consider myself an independent theater artist. I'm not part of a union. don't have an agent. I mostly create my own work. So that means like wearing a lot of hats sometimes. I like am the co-artistic director of a theater company.

And I say that and it's basically just my friend and I just declared ourselves the co-artists. know, we've like bought a website domain and now we're material theater or whatever. But that means that, you know, we decide what kind of work we want to make and make it. And so for me, that involves playwriting. It involves devising stories, which is a sort of more like organic.

embodied practice of like developing ideas and sometimes you write them down, sometimes you just like embody them. Directing and dramaturging my own work and also collaborating with other people to do those things. I often am also doing like costume and prop design and I do most of the production side too, which doesn't really feel artistic, but I think is a big part of, especially now life as sort of

as like self-employed independent artists. You also have to be your own like marketing manager and your own fundraiser and grant writer and you know, all that kind of stuff. Although those things don't feel as like creatively stimulating, that's also a part of my practice. And I also, I also am a teaching artist, so I, you know, facilitate theater and clown workshops and projects for other people.

So the last long time, like most of the work that I've been creating has been mine from beginning to end. It's all kind of been me creating things that I'm intrigued by or excited by artistically and intellectually, and then figuring out bit by bit how to make that make sense in my life and sustain it, support it in my life. And I am.

lucky to have a partner who's incredibly supportive and is more of the primary breadwinner in our house and that I also have skills in other, you know, I have another job that can partially sustain me. But I am finding now that like the stuff that I want to create is pretty consuming and it would be really nice if it could just be my only full-time job. Like I'm just finishing writing a full length play with a big cast and I'm producing it with Grant.

funding this year and I wish that I could just be only doing that and nothing else. But that is not quite a realistic thing yet, I guess.

Nikko Snyder (: 12:06

you know, what's leading you as an independent artist. You're really only going towards the things that intrigue you that you want to explore. What are those things?

Marya Folinsbee (: 12:15

mean, it's interesting because my artistic life has dovetailed with parenthood pretty strongly. And probably 20 years ago, the kind of stuff I was making, I mean, I was like an anarchist confronting empire. And my work was reflecting that a lot more, I would say, and was sort of like trying to make an argument for a different way of being a different like.

path through the world, alternative culture. Yeah, and then my life changed quite a bit. And I would say in the last 10 years or more, as an artist, the themes that keep coming up for me, the big one is this is navigating between domestication and wildness. And this is a line from my new play, but.

feeling simultaneously the most animal I've ever felt and the most human. And I parenthood really like brought that out in me that like, I've always been a bit repressed in relation to my own instincts, I think I'm like, I don't trust my instincts or something. And I think parenthood really like awakened an instinctual relationship to my animal body that I hadn't been as in touch with before.

And so a lot of my work in the last few years has been about that in one way or another, domestication and wildness and the way like that we're colonized into the roles that we play in the world. I mean, the state change of becoming a mother for me was really like mind blowing and the sort of loss of self and then the rediscovery of self and the like,

negotiation of that identity are big themes that still show up in my work quite a lot. The risk and the responsibility of being a parent and I guess existential dread. I'm really inspired by absurdist theater, which tends to explore themes around like nihilism and futility and this sort of like being helpless and also

powerful at the same time and like what that means. And I think those themes merge quite well with parenthood. For me anyway, I like was obsessed with absurdist theater as a teenager and then other things happened in my life and now I feel like I've like returned to that way of thinking as I've gotten a little bit older and I'm recognized or yeah, dealing with the paradoxes of.

being alive in a fragile human body and being responsible for other fragile human bodies and you know, what a big deal it all is and then also sort of how completely insignificant at the same time.

Nikko Snyder (: 15:23

Yeah. mean, even how, even the experience of parenting, like if I think about like something that is, you know, simultaneously the feeling of, of, you know, powerful fullness and futility moment to moment, it's an apt way to think about, about how raising children feels.

nt that developed in the late: 1940

theater into like every kind of Monday, like the most mundane day-to-day situations like that. feel you like actively bringing magic into just your life, your day-to-day life, which I really love. just one quick example is, and I told you this before, but you know, when we went to our last like baseball game of the season and you and your partner were coaching and so handing out these certificates to, of

you know, accomplishment to all the children and which could just be, I mean, that happens at any time at any child sports league of all time anywhere. but yeah, there was this like magical, like you created, was a piece of theater that you created around the delivery of it and the presentation of it, which to me just like at that moment I was like, that's really, really magical in terms of just creating, creating magic from anything, taking inspiration from life's moments and

Yeah, I love that.

Marya Folinsbee (: 17:13

Well, thank you. I didn't really realize that that's something I do until you kind of named it. Although now I see what I know what you mean. I do think that a lot of that is like just in me, you know, is like I'm not aware of that. Or I'm not it's not necessarily intentional. just is. Yeah, I kind of like the language I speak in the world. One of the things I feel like I've learned from

being a theater artist is the potency of ceremony and spectacle and ritual and kind of symbolism in the way that we narrate our own lives. And that is the thing with it is you can kind of find it anywhere. And if you look at any play, it's just mundane human relationship stuff, but made

significant, kind of just by our attention to it. And you know, that's like what all storytelling is forever has always just been like, let's pay attention to this with our words, with our like time, with our voice, whatever it is. And yeah, think it, I mean, it certainly makes my life richer. I feel, yeah, I feel, guess lucky to like that my art flows into real life.

enough in that way. Almost that now it is like kind of second nature, I guess.

Nikko Snyder (: 18:47

I'm wondering what that means for your parenting. What kind of parent does that make you?

Marya Folinsbee (: 18:57

One thing that I'm happy about is that my kids have seen, have been with me through and witnessed my, the development of this part of my life. And that, I don't know, I think that it's modeling, like, self-love and strength and identity or something. Like, I haven't sacrificed who I am for parenthood, which I think is, for me anyways, like,

absolutely rooted in like feminist philosophy and I don't know, justice. I think my kids also just sort of take for granted like this is our life and this is one of the things that my mom does. But hopefully it's a good example that they might be inspired by in whatever way you know in their life.

Nikko Snyder (: 19:47

Yeah, there's a couple of things that we've talked a little bit about before, just in terms of what things that you're modeling to your kids, mean, one thing they are seeing you live this life, choosing this life as an artist. And I think going through sometimes like the ups and downs of that, like the real struggles. I think, yeah, I'd love to hear a little bit about that, like just them being with you through that journey and what that means.

Marya Folinsbee (: 20:17

Yeah, one of the things that I think is cool and that I'm still figuring out and learning is that it's like, it's a process. I think seeing and participating in art as like just a part of your everyday life. Yeah, and mundane and up and down and in and out and like long process for me has taken the

the kind of like vauntedness out of it, the kind of like untouchability, like magic in some way. And it's like, this is labor as much as anything else is labor. And it doesn't go from like nothing to like magic overnight. You know, it is like a thing that you learn and the thing that you do better in the, I fail, fail again, fail better like.

it's all about process. And I think when I was a kid, I probably wasn't really aware of that. And I think kids often are afraid to make mistakes or fail at things because they don't see the thing going from nothing to something spectacular. They just see the spectacle. They just see like the finished movie or the TV show or the painting or whatever it is. And they're not aware of

the struggle and strife and anxiety and grief and like, you know, 10 terrible drafts that go into it. And so I think it has been really good for, like, our kids will often like watch rehearsals and yeah, they'll see the process. They'll like help me build props for my shows or they'll like see the pile of weird stuff in our storage room of like, that's.

the mannequin I tried to make or that was the this failed thing. Like they've seen the work that I do in every stage of its development and taking some of the power.

Nikko Snyder (: 22:25

Mystique.

Marya Folinsbee (: 22:27

Yeah,

the mystique totally out of the process and observing it as like you can be a normal person with a normal life who also happens to like think interesting things and create interesting things. I think that that is a really good lesson for any kid to learn. My kids still struggle with perfectionism or like not wanting to fail or you know, like that sort of the shame of a mistake or whatever. But I do think that

To some extent, we've been able to model that process part that is like a great lesson.

Nikko Snyder (: 23:04

I think the example that you had shared with me when we talked before was the work that you were putting together in the summer and it wasn't coming together. Like it was not really coming together the way you hoped and maybe you were like panicking a little bit. Yeah. And just that like they were there for that. They were witness to that.

Marya Folinsbee (: 23:22

Yeah, they were there for that. And yeah, when you say panicking a little bit, like, was like falling apart. And there was this one night I was like trying to pack, we were going to the Edmonton Fringe and my parents live at Edmonton. So it's like a big family adventure. kind of combine our like fringe performance with a holiday. So I was like up here trying to pack and just like burst into tears. And my son who's 12,

came up and like found me crying on the floor. And it was so sensitive and like, and perceptive. Like he knew that this had been going on. He knew that this like process had been quite stressful. And he was like, are you like worried about the play? Cause it's going to be fine. You guys are going to do great. Like I know you're going to figure it out and it's going to be awesome. And he was so, he was so encouraging. And it's funny cause I would love for him to apply that.

kind of language to his own stuff sometimes. But he was, yeah, he believed in us and he recognized that this was like a moment in the process, but not the end result. And I think I go through a version of that. That was a particularly extreme state of self-doubt and panic that I was in with that show. Like we really, didn't have the summer was really stressful. We didn't have enough time to develop it the way we wanted, but

every single piece of theater I've ever made, you go through that. There is like, you're excited, here's your idea, throw things at the wall, rehearse, et cetera. Wait a minute, this is insane and stupid and everyone's gonna hate me. I have come to accept that that is part of the process, but it still can absolutely floor me. And I think that he has probably consciously or unconsciously been witnessing that his whole life, this like listening to me.

like bemoan my work with people and then sees, does see the final product and it's not terrible. So yeah, that was a really, that was totally a moment of him parenting me. And it totally felt like a lovely lesson that he had in some way learned where he was just very sensitive to me as an artist and my process. And yeah, and had like the right words.

too, which was so, so nice. And yeah, and interesting. It was an interesting parenting moment too.

Nikko Snyder (: 25:53

Yeah.

Sure. Going back to that, mean, the perseverance that is required with any creative process, you know, just keeping on and working through the blocks and the low moments and the manic moments or whatever, but like, you know, that perseverance and the resiliency, you know, modeling that resiliency to kids, my gosh, like huge. And also, you know, that,

Marya Folinsbee (: 26:08

Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 26:28

fail and that willingness to that that is part of the process and to not be, I know that that is like an important part of your process is embracing that failure. I'd love to hear more about that.

Marya Folinsbee (: 26:44

Yeah, I mean, part of it has just been learning that and and like experiencing it. Like, it's one thing to say like, failures can be fruitful. Failure is part of the process. It's another thing to experience it and see the result and then go along. Sometimes it feels like the work is dragging me along and I'm constantly in awe of how like art

insists upon itself sometimes. Like the play that I'm writing right now, I've been writing for five years and not like every day for five years, but the idea came to me five years ago. And so many times I had no idea what it was about, no idea what I was doing, felt completely lost, was just writing absolute trash or would like

write something and give up on it. It's been through so many drafts and it's wild to see, to have seen that through to a point where I'm almost ready to produce it. But it was, it was like the play needed to get written. It wasn't like I needed to write the play or that was the feeling. I, you know, that's the story of it or whatever. And that has been a very empowering experience for me, I think.

was just like being dragged along, losing faith in it so many times and then having it bubble back to the surface or having the epiphany or having the just being comfortable with an unmapped inconceivable process. It's like, I did not know how it was going to go. And I did not know how it was going to get from nothing to something. I just knew that

or I believed that it probably would or that it might if I kept trying and kind of like letting the process happen to me. And I like discovered a lot of things about process and I also like pursued learning about it. You know, like I sought out podcasts and read books and like took classes and talked to other artists. And I learned a lot and gathered a lot of information about how people do this.

But also it was just like, what is going to happen will happen, how it happens. And like, you just have to be as present as you can be for it and work as hard as you're able to and surf the emotional waves and, you know, deal with the other things in your life and like, and then see how they show up in the work too. I'm always kind of amazed by like, like this play could have been anything.

And it's still like, how do I know that this is what it's supposed to be? And it could have just as easily been something else. Like art is also strange in that way that there are infinite options for how it might become or what it might be in the end. And eventually you kind of just have to decide this is the one that's right. Like when I finished the sort of the draft that I'm working from.

now that really is the shape of the play that it is now, I was like, okay, I'm done. Like, I know that, but how do I know that? And who says it's done? And why is it done? And why is it done now? And like, what does this mean? And yeah, I think that's kind of the magic of it. I also have gotten comfortable with the idea that like, art is great even when it's not perfect and art is great.

even when we're not ready for it or. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. And not every, you know, like my art's not for everyone. Like I'm kind of done trying to satisfy other people exactly. It's like what I want is to feel that I have done something as well as I can with as much honesty or resonance as I could find in it. And like given.

Nikko Snyder (: 30:38

even when it's not successful in the world.

Marya Folinsbee (: 31:06

the idea what it deserves, but that like, it won't be perfect and it won't be universally loved. And that's fine. In fact, that's great and totally exciting. I was reflecting about this just the other day that, so I joined a like community band last year and I played trombone in like a community band and

I played drum mode in junior high and hadn't played it in more than 20 years when I kind of got like

Nikko Snyder (: 31:40

Shoulder tapped for the band.

Marya Folinsbee (: 31:42

Yeah, I got voluntold into it. Yes. And I kind of joined ambivalently and was like, okay, I'll like come to a rehearsal and see what's up. Like I liked playing trombone when I split, whatever. We'll see. And I was not good and I'm not good at sight reading and I hadn't played in 20 years. My tone, you know, like I didn't do well at band practice the first time I went, but it was so fun and making mistakes was fun and trying.

And then getting better was fun. Like everything about it was fun. And it was like, because it was just for fun and because there was no judgment and the stakes were just like, we're here together making music. Like nobody was, was judging me. and it was so liberating and joyful and stimulating. And, and yeah, now I'm like all in, try to never miss a rehearsal, you know.

And having an outlet like that, an arts practice that's like that, where nothing matters except your own joy in it, has been very, very healthy for me and like healed some of that perfectionism or that like product versus process headspace that you can get into and has taught me a lot about resilience, I guess, or self-confidence or something.

Nikko Snyder (: 33:09

I can imagine also like a really nice counterpoint to, you're like trying to, know, you're working on this grant funded, like big production and to have something that kind of can offset or like remind of a different way of being like in art.

Marya Folinsbee (: 33:25

Yeah. And I think, you know, like all the arts I think used to be like that. And really it's capitalism that has messed up all of our relationships to these things that like, it's only valuable if you're making a living from it or the only measure of success is like number of tickets sold or whatever. Yeah. So having an outlet where none of that is relevant is important. And I have been working on letting that

also inform my so-called professional arts practice as much as possible as well. I also think I'm turning 40 next month and I think that there's that story that women over 40 stop giving a fuck or whatever. I don't know if that's true, but I do think I am much less self-conscious and much less concerned with other people's opinions of me than I used to be.

It is interesting. still do feel like as an artist, want to have great conversations about my work. I want people to be moved by it. And with theater, like, it's really fun to do, but the last ingredient is always the audience. like, it is important that they're there, and usually it's important that they are appreciating it, you know? And like...

as a clown or doing like comedy in particular, like if you're trying to be funny and nobody's laughing, like that's pretty painful. it's not like I don't care at all what other people think, but kind of trusting that like my audience will find me or that I'll find my people and there's something we can resonate with together. I think I'm getting better at that.

and sort of accounting for taste and letting other people have their things and not worrying as much about being like universally loved or whatever.

Nikko Snyder (: 35:29

It's so interesting. mean, everything about what you've been talking about, we're talking about this unmapped and inconceivable, I think, process that, you know, is what like takes an idea through sometimes years, right, to find its various, like this evolution of where that goes and just that as a metaphor for life, really, right? Like, we're not...

Marya Folinsbee (: 35:59

And parenting. Totally. Yeah, I mean, our kids are not works of art, but I think our relationship to them can be.

Nikko Snyder (: 36:00

Yeah, yeah.

I just want to take a second to thank you for tuning in. Parenting Creative is an independent Canadian podcast. If you like what you hear, please help us grow by taking a few moments to sign up for our email newsletter at parentingcreative.com and by following us on social media. We're at Parenting Creative on Instagram and Blue Sky.

There's a couple other things I'd love to talk about. One is like sort of the way that we bring children in to process, creative process. And then the way that sometimes, so that's, you know, on one hand, like we can bring our children in and there's like magic and meaning in that, think. And then there's other places where it's about keeping children out, right? And like protecting this space and this like, you know, creative self.

Marya Folinsbee (: 36:43

Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 37:00

So, yeah, I guess two little things that I know about you and maybe an example of each of those things is like, so I got to be part of a table read for your play that you're working on and it was lovely. was very, it was really community, this beautiful kind of community moment, also very family friendly. Like you had childcare and there was, you know, kids running in and out and kind of experiencing this artistic, this theater.

practice that is this table read. so I love that. And it was really inclusive of our families and our community, I guess, is how that felt. yeah, curious about sort of that, those choices of like how to bring children in and then on the other side, like I know that you, you know, prioritized going on a retreat, like this solo retreat last year to like focus on your play and like really work on it and really, yeah.

Marya Folinsbee (: 37:57

Yeah, I don't think theater has always been very inclusive of parents. And yeah, and art in general, I feel like there used to be a story of like, especially with women, male artists can father all kinds of children, but the expectation is that they don't actually have to take care of them. Whereas like women often in previous generations, the idea has been you kind of have to choose or you'll be bad at one if you're good at the other kind of, and that's the the trade off.

So for me, mean, most of my friends, most of the people I want to collaborate with are also parents. So there's like the practical, we all have this challenge that, you know, we have to figure out how to integrate. But, and then also just that like village life, the kind of community that I want to live in, the kind of world I want to live in is multi-generational and integrated and, and kind of like

if capitalism wasn't involved, art would be getting made all the time in all kinds of ways and that would necessarily involve our children and involve their participation and feedback and presence and witness. so, yeah, and I think my kids are better off being in those spaces to some extent. Like, I want them to see that and to overhear it. you know, like my mom has been a part of a book club for

my whole life. And I used to pretend to be sleepwalking into the living room whenever her like, book club friends were over because it was like a juicy place, you know, they like, they were laughing and talking about all this cool stuff. And like, they were modeling a collective artistic appreciation and intellectualism that like, I found very compelling when I was a kid and was always trying to get into it.

And so I do. remember like walking like this into the room, you know? I like, and of course now I don't begrudge her wanting that private time without me around, but I do think that those spaces are juicy and that our kids benefit from being a part of them. And I also, you know, I want parent perspective on things and so making space for parents in the ways that I know we need.

is totally important. And then yes, I'm a little bit worried that I can't finish a play without a week alone. And not just alone, but also separated from the drudgery of domestic life. And the residency that I've gone on twice now, it's like nearby, but it's like a boat ride away and it's in this very like minimalist,

empty, quiet, clean space. like part of it is like, you are investing in this time and your whole family is like has come together to like help you out. You know, like your kids are sacrificing a week of mom time and your partner's doing like all of the labor so that you can do this. So there's like that sort of social pressure, I think of you have to make this valuable. But it's also the like

quieting of monkey mind, quieting of all of the other responsibilities of everyday life in order to focus on art. And I do not apologize for that. do not, you know, like, my kids will be like, I don't want you to go and please don't leave and whatever. And I'm like, I love you and I'm sorry that you're going to miss me, but I am going and I'm not sorry that I'm going and it's important.

that I say that and it's important that they hear that too, I think. And I reject the notion that we need to sacrifice other parts of identity in order to parent. And I think that we are made better parents by our allegiance to our own magic, our own desires, our own personalities. I'm certain of that, in fact. I think I would be a much angrier

more bitter, know, more miserable parent if I didn't do those things for myself and if I didn't make my art life valuable. Now I'm sort of starting to learn when I need that, I think, because I've experienced it a couple of times. And I think I probably will schedule in a retreat for every play that I write from now on.

because it's really, really valuable. And it is a thing that's hard to accomplish at home. Yeah, and there are some artists who have done it. I've read a couple of essays by Ursula Le Guin, who was like an incredibly prolific and brilliant writer and was also a beloved mom, you know? And I think she had like four or five kids. wow.

that she was raising in the 50s while also writing amazing books.

Nikko Snyder (: 43:18

In fact, Ursula Le Guin had three children born between 1957 and 1964. She credited her husband, Charles Le Guin, with making it possible for her to balance writing and family life. Le Guin wrote about the challenges of balancing writing and parenthood in an essay published in the New York Times in 1989 titled, The Hand That Rocks the Cradle Writes the Books, which I'll link to in the show notes. She wrote, a person who undertakes responsibility both to her art and to her dependent children has undertaken a full-time double job that can be simply

practically destroyingly impossible. Of course, many of us these days are trying to find that balance with a triple or even quadruple full-time job.

Marya Folinsbee (: 43:59

So it's not like you can't do it, but I suspect Ursula Le Guin was like a very disciplined person. I am not a very disciplined person. I'm also like bad at waking up in the morning. Like, I don't know. just, I know that enough about myself to know that I will procrastinate with chores. I'll procrastinate with housework or whatever. Yeah, that I will privilege.

sleeping in over waking up at 5 a.m. to like write a hundred pages before the kids get up. Whatever. No shame. It's fine. There's lots of different ways to make art, but I have to go take a boat to some empty house somewhere every once in a while and just focus.

Nikko Snyder (: 44:46

you said that you don't apologize for that and that it makes you a better parent. Yeah. And I'm just curious. I love that. I think there are many parents, moms, maybe I'll, I would say even more specifically, that would have a really hard time not apologizing for that and feeling like that made them good parents or even better parents. I'm curious whether that was something that you have come to be able to embrace that or if that's just...

part of you, like you are not gonna apologize for this rejection of, you know, this idea that you have to be one or the other.

Marya Folinsbee (: 45:24

Yeah, I don't think I have felt as much guilt as other moms I know feel about their relationship to their kids. And I don't have an explanation for that exactly. I don't know if that was the kind of women who were around me. My mom is a wonderful mom who's incredibly generous and giving.

but like I said, was a pretty, was not a super like helicopter parent at all. And the way that I was parented, I had a great childhood and I wasn't always with my mom. You know, in fact, I was not with my mom most of the time and, and I had a great time and I love her and I love my dad. You know, both my parents were they're great parents, like.

My kids might think that I am in some way harming them by like not constantly being there. Although I don't think they do really. But, but I don't, I think it's good for them. like I think it's actually a better choice to both model my own like independence and self care and, and being the person that I want to be in the world. Modeling that is an, is an important thing to model and

giving them space for independence and self-discovery and imagination and quiet and alone time. And also like that calling in the village, like when I've gone to retreats in the past, they're like at summer camp and they're organizing like afterschool play dates with their friends and they're engaging with other great adults in their world. And I think this is...

incredibly important, they're also seeing their dad support their mom in a pretty profound way, which like, men should do. I mean, everybody should do. It's not necessarily like an intentional choice. Part of it, I feel like is my just who I am. But when I have to justify it, I think it is quite justified and probably better than yeah, than having a

bitter grumpy mom who like wishes that she could have been something in the world but is really, you know, just a sad housewife. I think my kids are better off that way.

Nikko Snyder (: 47:56

Yeah, I mean it and you know, you're talking about modeling for modeling things to our kids all the time And you know the importance of modeling things to our kids is different depending on the kid to write like you you mentioned you have a daughter and a son and I mean so modeling Modeling you as a whole self-realized artist Who is prioritizing that part of you is yeah. Yeah, that's that's important for different reasons, I guess

Marya Folinsbee (: 48:25

Yeah, and different for each of them, for sure. When we had our baby and we're like, you're a boy, that's scary for these specific and intense reasons related to patriarchal masculinity and the world and how do you raise good men and what does that mean? And yeah, I do think that being a good parent who is also their own person is quite an important thing for.

young men to witness and witnessing a family that values everybody's heart needs is a really important lesson for boys.

Nikko Snyder (: 49:08

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Maybe in terms of just a little more kind of the concrete, like kind of day to day curious about, you know, the things that fuel or enable your practice, like what works for you? And these like, even to the extent of like, kind of like a life hacks, like what do you do to make this, you know, you talked about

persevering with this, your play for like five years, seeing this idea evolve and seeing it through, like what are the concrete things that like enable you to do that? And what are also what are some of the barriers? Like what just really stops you in your tracks and how do you navigate those things?

Marya Folinsbee (: 49:53

Yeah, I feel like I'm going to have an easier time identifying challenges. The challenging things in my life that I contend with are, like I said, my own lack of discipline and willpower. And just, I'm pretty permissive and like I said, selfish. And sometimes that works against me where I'm like, it's okay if I just, I just need a moment.

I'm just gonna like scroll Instagram for the next half hour and it's okay that I'm wasting my, you know, alone time, whatever. So I can be a little bit undisciplined, which is a challenge. And then I work from home, my art and my administrator work are both here at this same desk. And so like being...

strong in my like psychic barrier can be challenging. So I would say, yeah, a barrier around having healthy boundaries. Those things are very challenging for me. And then I, like I said, find all kinds of ways to procrastinate from my arts practice in real life, housework and stuff like that. One of the life hacks that I found around that

is like doing work sideways is like the things that you can do when you're not actively writing that are contributing to writing. And one of those things is exploring on a theme. So like I listened to a lot of podcasts and I will seek out material to listen to that speaks to the play. like, I'll be like, this character feels like not very well drawn. So I need to listen to a podcast.

with a person who's kind of like this, or I need to listen to the kind of podcast that this character would listen to, for example. Or if I'm stuck on some kind of like writing issue, there's all kinds of like great writing podcasts and things like that. doing that sort of side, like lateral work at different times and like trusting that even if those things don't feel explicitly and obviously productive, they are.

And same thing with like taking lots of walks and talking to myself. And I do a lot of like going for walks and like imagining the future that my work is, exists in and talking about it and talking as if it's there already. And I don't know if that's really helpful, but I do think that it, I don't know, it helps with some sort of confidence or like future visioning and, and is clarifying.

Those are things that I find very supportive. In nitty gritty ways, when I'm like, I am going to write today, I find having a timer, I have like a hourglass that's like a 15 minute hourglass, but I also just set the timer on my phone sometimes and being like, all you're doing is looking at your document or writing during this time. And, and I find if it's like 15 or 20 minute increments,

my like monkey mind that tries to get distracted by other things is willing to go along with that. that's, that's enough of a compromise that I don't scroll on Instagram, which to my shame is probably the most, yeah, in my way more often than I would like to admit. I also, I started tracking the things that I can do to be productive in my work is like writing or reading and editing.

journaling on themes and characters, writing in prose, like processing with a different style, doing like source work and marginalia and research, which is that like listening to a podcast about a thing that's sort of related to this thing, making visual art, like doing a collage or drawing or stuff like that, going for a walk, seeking out professional development, so either taking a class or like listening to a sort of

process-related, technique-related podcast or something like that. Or seeking out inspiration. With this play, the tone that I wanted to capture was really specific, and so I made this list of all the movies that I know of that might relate to that tone. And so if I'm like, my brain feels dead and I don't want to do this or I'm tired or whatever, then watching a movie,

or even just part of a movie that has something that I admire that feels related to this. writing all that down and deciding that those were like specific techniques and that they all have value. And only like two of those things are like directly productive in the way that we would measure like, I wrote 10 more pages today or whatever. only two of the editing, writing and editing are really the only two things on that list that we like

see as being a productive part of your process. But all of those things are so productive and some of the most like important epiphanies or like corners turned in their working on this play have come from those other places. Totally. And so redefining what work is to include a much broader set of actions has been really, really helpful for me artistically.

Yeah. Yeah. Like crossing the wires to the like visual art or like movement, you know, like I am an actor. So like doing weird dances or like, you know, getting out of my head, those things can be really, really supportive in very surprising ways. I also found that tracking it like that, like, yeah, having that calendar and being able to look back and, in the month of April, like I actually

even though I only wrote 20 pages or whatever, let's say, you I worked on this for like 40 hours or whatever, that gives a little bit of a like reward. Yeah, and kind of inspiration.

Nikko Snyder (: 56:21

It lets you be responsive to, like, like where you're at at any given moment. Like you had a terrible sleep or you're in a part of your cycle where you're, don't know. Like it's, yeah.

Marya Folinsbee (: 56:27

Mm-hmm.

Right, yeah.

Yeah, and that's like comfort with the weirdness of process. It's like process isn't linear. It's not going to look the same every day. It's immeasurable. And here are like 10 different examples of process that you can engage with depending on where you're at.

Nikko Snyder (: 56:56

What did you, you called it working sideways?

Marya Folinsbee (: 56:58

Yeah, or like lateral thinking kind of. Yeah, it's great. Yeah. Well, with writing, especially, think sometimes you like have to sneak up on it because it's so intimidating otherwise, or it feels so important. Sneaking up on the hard parts, you know, I think is very helpful.

a document can suddenly become so important and untouchable and sacred that you can't mess with it. And now I have this sort of proof to my future self that all this chaos becomes something eventually at some point. I can see that. Yeah.

I find I have to have a very light touch, light relationship to the actual writing work, or I very quickly get.

kind of scared of it. And I am very indecisive, which is really hard when you're writing something. And I'm intrigued because I'm moving from kind of taking off my playwright hat a little bit and putting on my director hat a little bit. And being a director is basically making like hundreds of decisions. So I'm sort of like bracing for that and just collecting whatever tools and like

convictions I can to like be confident in the decisions I'm gonna have to make.

Nikko Snyder (: 58:37

Is there something you'd like to say about what's coming up? Anything that you want to promote or just share about what is coming up for you over the next several months?

Marya Folinsbee (: 58:50

Yeah, I'm excited about the next several months. The play that I'm producing in the spring in June is called The Mosquitoes. It features mosquitoes in a sort of like chaotic, neutral, complicated role. And so it's been funny. I've like come to like really love mosquitoes in the last little while writing this play. I really like him resonating with them spiritually or something. So it's a

great big production, there's like tons of actors, I'm hiring a whole design team, you know, some fantastic collaborators and picturing this thing going from just being on the page and in my head into a like multi-dimensional big artistic process with lots of inputs and lights and sound and music and actors and hearing other people with my words in their mouth.

It's very daunting, but it's exciting. But yeah, I think that this year will be a big test of like a lot of different skills and experiences that I have developed as a theater maker. And I'm quite excited to see what happens. And I feel very lucky. I have a lot of grant funding and a lot of enthusiastic collaboration and...

it's really funny. Every once in I'm like, like, why does this hundred pages of text matter at all? And then I'm like, it matters so much to me anyway. It matters so much to me. That's a very funny balance actually is like believing in the thing that you're doing enough to like go through all the hoops and, and this is probably the biggest, ambitious project I've done in a very long time.

So yeah, continuing to believe in it over the next six months will be a good challenge.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:00:47

Well, I know I live in the same part of the world as you, so I will get to actually see your production and I can't wait. I'm also looking at the clock and seeing that school is almost done and I don't know what's going to happen in your home, but kids are going to descend. My home will descend into chaos with the arrival of my children shortly. Any final thoughts on creative life, parenting, just, you know,

Marya Folinsbee (: 1:01:09

Yeah.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:01:16

the chaos, magic of how those two things come into our lives together.

Marya Folinsbee (: 1:01:23

I mean, I've just like lately I've been thinking a lot about just like making meaning, you know, like we are meaning makers and that's like what our lives are about. That's what our relationships are about. That's what art is about. Like to me, it feels very natural and good that we should be integrating these things into our lives and that they are not separate or distinct. And yeah, I do think becoming a parent

and stepping into my identity as an artist around the same time has like helped me make them both feel grounded. I do, want to like dismantle the mystique and status and like separation of artists from everyday life. Like they are the same thing. Like we're meeting makers, let's just do it. Love it. Kids and all.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:02:16

Wow. Okay. Well, this is amazing. I can't wait to share this conversation out into the world. Thank you so much, Marya, for your time and all your wonderful, thoughtful perspectives.

Marya Folinsbee (: 1:02:22

Yeah.

Thanks for making time for me. It's been lovely to chat.

Nikko Snyder (: 1:02:38

Is anybody out there?

Get an answer

I want to shout out another huge thank you to Marya Folinsbee for joining me on Parenting Creative as my intrepid first ever guest. You can learn more about Marya's work at materialtheatre.ca or by following her on Instagram at material underscore theater. I also want to give credit to my partner in parenting and podcasting, Jeremy Sauer, for all his work to make parenting creative sound great. And to Natural Sympathies for the use of her song, Hello, as the parenting creative theme song. The song asks, is anyone out there? And I hope that you are.

If you want to hear more conversations about the alchemy of parenting and creative life, please help the podcast grow by visiting parentingcreative.com to sign up for our email newsletter. And if you're able, by becoming a founding member of Parenting Creative, you can find out more information about that on our website or in the show notes. Parenting Creative is recorded and produced on the traditional and unceded territory of the Sinixt in BC's Slocan Valley. Thanks for listening and I'll see you again soon.