Nichole Huck: An Introverted Uber Driver's Worst Nightmare

Nichole Huck (: 00:00

I would love to have an art project where I just spend an entire day following my son and just like trying to capture him, but it's constantly disappearing because he's constantly evolving and he's constantly a new person and that moment is gone. I feel like that's just like parenting. It's just like you're trying to capture something and it's disappearing before they're already another version of themselves.

Nikko Snyder (: 00:30

you

I'm Nikko Snyder and this is Parenting Creative, a podcast that explores the places where creative life and parenting collide and all the magic and mess that ensues. In our inaugural season, we're delving into the creative lives of parents making art that ranges from theater and music to craft, journalism and poetry. Our goal is to build community and connection for those living deep in the struggles of caring for others while at the same time prioritizing their own creative lives. If you'd like to hear more conversations about making art while parenting,

Please help grow our community by following Parenting Creative wherever you get your podcasts, leaving us a five-star review with a few kind words, and visiting parentingcreative.com to sign up for our email newsletter.

On today's episode, I'm talking to journalist, dancer, photographer and parent of four, Nichole Huck. Nichole lives on Treaty 4 territory in Regina, Saskatchewan. As a journalist, she's passionate about public broadcasting and currently she produces a daily current events show on CBC radio in Saskatchewan. Nichole and I go back a long way, almost 20 years, and when I started to develop the concept for this podcast, I thought of her right away. But when I first reached out to Nichole, she asked me why I thought of her and told me she didn't really think of herself as a creative.

Her question gave me a good excuse to reflect on how I define creativity and get clearer about what the point of this podcast actually is. Here's what I wrote to Nichole in response to her question.

And I think curiosity is a fundamental ingredient of creativity and of a creative life. Your curiosity translates into a genuine appreciation of difference and diversity that really fosters inclusion and belonging and community. And I love that about you. What quality could possibly be better for a journalist, especially in our current society? And what quality could be better for a parent to model to their children? So while you may not consider yourself a quote unquote creative, I think this project would really be missing out.

and falling short if its conception of creative life was too narrow to encompass your beautiful spirit. In our conversation, Nichole and I talk about parenting and community, creating meaning by sharing each other's stories, the power of everyday micro-connections, jazz as a metaphor for parenting, listening to people even when you disagree with them, giving ourselves permission to enjoy the different seasons of life, raising boys in the age of impossible masculinity, high-fiving strangers, and the curative properties of bison hearts.

I do want to mention that near the end of the interview, Nichole mentions a friend who died by suicide, so I also want to offer a trigger warning about that. Here's my conversation with journalist, dancer, photographer, parent, and an introverted Uber driver's worst nightmare, Nichole Huck.

Nichole Huck (: 03:26

you

Nikko Snyder (: 03:29

Nichole Huck, welcome to Parenting Creative. Thank you for joining me.

Nichole Huck (: 03:34

Thank you so much for inviting me. I feel very honored to be among the people that you've selected and I'm excited to hear all of the other interviews.

Nikko Snyder (: 03:43

I'm pleased that you are among the first people that I get to talk to. We've known each other for long time, way before kids. Different time of life. So yeah, really excited to see how your life has evolved over the years and really looking forward to talking about your life and where things are at for you.

Nichole Huck (: 04:07

I love aging because you get to know people for longer periods of time and I love, I feel like often in creative circumstances, like if I see my friends who play in a band playing and I'm like, I've watched you performing since you were 15 years old. yeah. And I love seeing that evolution and just getting to like look at a person and also see all the iterations of them at the same time, I don't know.

I think that getting older is such a gift. I don't take that for granted. So I'm happy to have known so many different iterations of Unico.

Nikko Snyder (: 04:45

Thanks. Okay, so I would love it if to get started, if you would be able to introduce yourself and where you are in the world and in your life and worldview and then maybe introduce something about the work that you do, the creative work that you do.

Nichole Huck (: 05:05

Sure. So my name is Nichole Huck and I live in Regina, Saskatchewan. I am a mother of four between the ages of three and 13, two boys and two girls. I am a journalist. So I've worked for the CBC for 15 years, at least 15 years. And over that time I've mostly worked

in radio as a reporter and then for the big chunk of the last kind of decade I've been a radio producer so that means you're kind of in charge of the current affairs shows and I do love current affairs so much especially the show I'm on right now it's an hour long conversation every day and I love that you can really dig into topics a little bit more that you can bring together people who wouldn't necessarily get a chance

to talk with each other. And that's kind of the magic for me of like public broadcasting or having a provincial conversation around something.

Nikko Snyder (: 06:14

Quick note, throughout the interview, Nichole gives lots of different examples of episodes that she's produced for her show over the past year. So we're going to make sure to link those out in the show notes.

Nichole Huck (: 06:24

And then I also dance. I have been in this adult beginner group for, I got about 15 years as well. And I refuse to change groups because I just love the people in the group so much. And I love that my teacher, she's a couple of years older than me and I will continue being in her class until we can no longer dance, you know? And then I'm sure that we'll find another way. I like the community that comes with it because she's my neighbor also.

People who run the dance school live in my neighborhood. And it feels like over this decade plus, you know, I've seen the dancers grow up, like I danced with their parents. And then we've just created this beautiful community around it. So I just feel grateful to be part of that. And I really like taking pictures. But I actually, at this point in my life, don't love getting paid for taking photos. I love taking photos for people.

but I like it to be a gift that I can give someone. I take a lot of photos and there's a lot of reasons why I do that. I think probably my children are my biggest muse. I just see beauty around me and I want to capture it. And for other people, sometimes I see like an interaction between like a parent and their kid and I just want.

them to have that moment. So a lot of the times when I'm taking pictures for other people, I feel like that's my contribution to a group thing. Maybe someone else is very good at making the fire. Something in my contribution is that I'm documenting these special moments that are happening so that they can look back at that and be transported to that moment.

Nikko Snyder (: 08:16

You do have a real gift with the camera. I feel like you capture beauty in an amazing way. We live far away from each other, but I benefit all the time from your beautiful, prolific photography. So yeah.

Nichole Huck (: 08:30

You know, like people that have the practice of gratitude, like the gratitude journal. And I feel like it's like my gratitude journal. It's just, it's just a different medium. I'm very conscious of my walk to and from work. It's not that long a walk. It's only about a 10 minute walk. So it's like 40 minutes of my time by myself in a day where I'm walking back and forth and I'm listening. I'm open to be able to like,

listen to birds, I can see rabbits, can watch how the light is reflecting off of the construction site. And so I'll often stop on my walk to work to take photos. And I feel like it's just part of being conscious of the beauty that's around you or the light is really beautiful right now. The whore frost is, I mean, everybody thinks whore frost is gorgeous and of course it is. But I think it's just being mindful of seeing, of being conscious of seeing those little moments.

of beauty and then the act of taking the photo, the same as if you were journaling and writing that down. It's just like internalizing it and having to give it a space for that gratitude.

Nikko Snyder (: 09:41

You mentioned current events, that's your day job. That's your world is kind of being deep into current events, daily engaging with those. And I'd love to, I'd love to hear a bit about that, just how how that is for you and also also your family, I guess, because you mentioned when we've talked before, that, you know, the radio is always on in your house and that, you know, your kids are are also really

aware of what's going on in the world. I'm curious to know a bit about how you manage that for yourself. I just personally, I find it can be hard to stay engaged, to be engaged in a positive way with current events constantly. And then also for your kids, another thing that you've mentioned to me, I think your oldest child, you mentioned they're thoughtful and, you know,

engaged in like kind of social issues and that kind of thing and also that you've engaged them in some of your like, I think even interviewing them and doing things so curious. Yeah, just if you could talk about about that.

Nichole Huck (: 10:49

I mean radio and in particular CBC radio has just been like the soundscape of our lives. Like I look back at videos of the kids you know maybe like crawling for the first time or whatever but you always hear CBC in the background. So they've grown up with that and it's good and it has its challenges because not everything in the news is pleasant right? There's a lot of hurt and there's a lot of pain and there's a lot of things that are really inexplicable.

You can't justify why some things are happening. And there's no like magic bullet solution for these things either. You think about war or think about when something bad happens to a child or things like that where the kids are hearing that on the news as well. But I think more often than not, they're hearing about what's going on. Like they're very plugged into politics and they know the parties and who is running and they...

Unfortunately, most Canadians know way too much about what's going on with the American elections and politics in the States as well. And it's funny how much kids actually have opinions about these things too. You'd be surprised how often kids on playgrounds have conversations about Donald Trump. I think it's a lot more common than you might realize. But it also means that they're constantly surrounded by thoughtful

conversation, like there's a difference between news and current affairs to me. Like the news is important because you need to get that snapshot of what's happening. And then the current affairs helps provide context to something and helps like a deeper understanding. And so we're mostly listening to current affairs. I mean, the news happens, but the current affairs is like, is so that news isn't happening in isolation. It's helping understand and deepening our understanding of some of these things.

And my show, it's not just whatever's happening in the news. Like sometimes it is, like those are the things that are happening. Like obviously during the political cycle or like an election cycle, you're gonna have a lot more politics on your show and these types of things. But it's also the things of life too. For instance, we had a show with an author, a woman who'd written a book about raising boys in the age of impossible masculinity, or she called them possible masculinity. And she was talking about,

Yeah, like having a baby at the time of the Me Too movement. And she's like, I'm a feminist and this is great to see all this happening, see women being believed. But then there's like becomes like a little bit of a us versus them type of thing. And she's like, and I have these boys who are growing up in this world and I don't want it to be like us versus them. And she can say things and I think she's right that a man maybe can't say, you know, that she can say.

It's a very tough time to be a man, a young man trying to seek out your identity right now because everybody's telling you to be quiet, listen, it's not your turn anymore. But also what does that do to you when people are always telling you like, shut up, it's not your turn. And then it just like leads to why some young men feel like they need to find a place where they belong and they find a place where they belong in some of these like weird corners of the internet where people are like seeing them, you know?

Nikko Snyder (: 14:11

So the author Nichole's referring to is named Ruth Whitman. And if you want to check out her book, it's called Boy Mom, Reimagining Boyhood in the Age of Impossible Masculinity. We'll share that out in the show notes and we'll also link out to Nichole's show on masculinity.

Nichole Huck (: 14:25

So when we were doing that show about masculinity and impossible masculinity, I interviewed my 13 year old on our show and not that he thinks that he knows everything at 13, but I just feel like it is interesting to have a snapshot of what a 13 year old is thinking about or not thinking about. And went back to a conversation that we had a few years ago where when we talked about masculinity, he was like, you toxic masculinity? Like, no, not.

toxic masculinity. Masculinity is not inherently toxic. But so many young boys only hear the word masculinity associated with toxic. And so, I do like be mindful of pointing out like, look at these men in your life who are great dads and great community people and they dress up and they don't afraid to, you know, wear makeup to go with their daughters to the Taylor Swift movie, who are patient.

and kind scout leaders look around you and those are all examples of masculinity that's not toxic masculinity. And I think that sometimes we just have to be a little bit mindful and I just thought he was very thoughtful and it was interesting to know what the qualities are that he sees as being admirable for a man.

You know, like there's just qualities that are admirable for people. But like, if you're specifically trying to think of like, what do you want to be specific to masculinity? What does that look like for you? For him, it was not getting angry, not reacting with anger. Like being able to approach a situation, even if it's stressful, calmly was for him, what he saw. And maybe that'll change. But for him,

Nikko Snyder (: 15:53

What does it look like for him?

Nichole Huck (: 16:10

being able to stay cool even when tensions are high was his ideal. And you can unpack that and it's like anger has a purpose and everything too. But as a 13 year old boy right now, that's just what he aspires to, I guess. Also ask him just, if he thinks it's a harder time to be a boy right now. And I think his answer was also quite thoughtful in that he's like, depends on who you are. If you're a queer

Boy, it's probably a lot better time for you than in other times. Or if you're someone who just doesn't fit into the box of whatever, it's probably a better time.

Nikko Snyder (: 16:52

Yeah, I love that. Of course children are, first of all, they're sponges. They're soaking up everything around them all the time, trying to process it. If we're lucky, we get to talk to them and we get to engage with them.

Nichole Huck (: 17:05

And

now I'm trying to be more intentional about like, cause it's not easy for a 13 year old to come and talk to his mom necessarily, especially cause when I were home, I feel like I'm often like telling him to do things, you know, go clean this or can you take out the garbage? know, like help with your siblings so we can get out the door and go do something physical activity outside so I can feel like a good mom. So I've started trying to like go to a movie with him. And then we have like that time after the movie or whatever to like.

talk about the movie or talk about whatever, but I would love to have an art project where I just spend an entire day following my son and just like trying to like capture him, but it's constantly disappearing because he's constantly evolving and he's constantly a new person and that moment is gone, you know? And I feel like that's just like parenting. It's just like you're trying to like capture something and it's disappearing before they're already another

version of themselves.

Nikko Snyder (: 18:14

I just want to take a quick sec to thank you for tuning in. Parenting Creative is an independent Canadian podcast. If you like what you hear, please help us grow by taking a few moments to sign up for our email newsletter at parentingcreative.com and by following us on social media. We're at Parenting Creative on Instagram and Blue Sky.

Yeah, shifting back to you and like your job is to be bringing people together in conversation, generating ideas about what topics to cover, how to approach them, all this stuff. Like, how do you generate these ideas constantly? And also like, how do you approach tackling current affairs in a, I don't know, generative, positive way? I mean, there's just so many, there's so many issues that are just...

are hard, right? Like it's, it's a hard, it is a hard time.

Nichole Huck (: 19:10

Yeah, mean, having five shows a week, there's not necessarily a formula. It changes all the time. And then also in my, if I ever get a chance to do my own storytelling, it's different too. I had a whole, like this series called Beautiful Mess, which was inspired by me wanting to just get wisdom from the people that I saw around me who were parents. Like in kind of like hard earned wisdom.

I mean, I feel like that's what wisdom is. Lessons that you learned through difficult things often. And it started with like somebody who cuts my hair and her son had gone through testicular cancer and she was just so wise in talking about how she talked to him about it, you know? And I was like, this wisdom would benefit so many people.

Nikko Snyder (: 20:05

The project that Nichole is referring to, Beautiful Mess, is a wonderful and poignant series about parenting that Nichole created back in 2018 and 2019. But the stories are really no less relevant today, so we're going to share those out in our show notes as well.

Nichole Huck (: 20:20

But more than that, it's like people having their story recorded and reflected back at them gives it meaning. Everybody has a story. Everybody has something valuable to contribute. But not everybody has that platform. And so to me, like a big part has been being able to like help provide that platform and help someone maybe like discern the wisdom that they have gained.

There's like some people just like living their life and not thinking about why they're doing the things that they're doing or like that extra meaning around it. And I think that sometimes journalists, storytellers, podcasters, you know, can help people pull out some of the wisdom that they have gained but didn't really see it as wisdom. And having someone trust you to tell their story is like a very special thing.

You don't want to mess it up. But that gift of being able to like give someone a snapshot of their life and the sounds of people in their life, think is like a really beautiful thing that you can do for someone. And so I appreciate people like you who are giving people a platform to be able to like see some of the wisdom in their own life that they've gained without necessarily like we're not all artists.

I'm just so grateful for artists for doing the work that I don't have time or make time to do, which is process the craziness that's happening around us and then reflect it back in a way that people see their stories. I think about that with songwriters all the time. An artist takes the things around them and then they are able to reflect it back or process it and reflect it in a way so that other people see those little moments of their own life.

wish that we had more artists who are paid to just do the work that the rest of us don't make time for, which is processing the big feelings and the big emotions and the big things that are happening in the world and helping us be able to make sense of things.

Nikko Snyder (: 22:35

So interesting to me that you're saying that and I could not agree more. And at the same time, I see that in the work that you do. And when I was inviting you to be on this podcast, one of your questions to me was why? Why me and I don't really see myself as a creative. And that was, yeah, it was interesting to me because I do see journalism as part of that work of taking these stories.

big, huge stories of the world, people's individual stories and telling them, finding meaning, creating meaning. yeah, I see that in you. And I'm curious, there's a difference between journalism and songwriting or visual art perhaps, but what is the disconnect between your perception of yourself as a creative person or not?

Nichole Huck (: 23:28

I mean, obviously creativity needs to be part of my job and like taking information and trying to make it, deliver it in a way that is accessible and engaging and maybe gets people to think about something in a way that they hadn't thought of before. It's thinking about what voices are not included in the conversation and then actively like seeking them out and making space for it. It's a tricky thing because ours is a phone in show as well. And at the best of times,

You just don't even know. You never know who's listening. We did a show like a week ago about bison because it had been 10 years since papicocis had their bison herd come and live on papicocis and 10 years since this bison treaty that's signed by a bunch of signatories across Turtle Island. So the show is about bison and a guy calls in from

Okanese First Nation and he's like, Okanese has had bison since whatever time. And then he tells this story of like having been in the hospital with diabetes and was going to get his foot amputated, but his brother showed up with four bison hearts and he only ate bison heart for like that week and all that. And he didn't have to get his foot amputated. But it was just like this like interesting, I didn't know at the start of that show what voices, you know, like there's magic and

not knowing who's listening and people just bringing something different to a conversation.

Nikko Snyder (: 25:00

Quick aside, I'll admit that I had never heard of this very cool Buffalo Treaty, which was first signed in 2014 and has since been signed by over 70 First Nations in Canada and the US. The goal of the treaty is to return buffalo to the land and promote the buffalo's role in culture, health, education, and the environment. I'll share a link to more information about the Buffalo Treaty in our show notes. And if you're like me and are dying to know more about the guy saved from amputation by the miraculous healing properties of Beisenhard,

I'll also link out to the episode of Nichole's show that she was referring to.

Nichole Huck (: 25:32

And it's tricky and it's sensitive. People feel strongly, but I feel strongly that we need to hear from people who don't agree with us on things too. A colleague had done all this work with a couple of the people who had started the Freedom Convoy, because they have ties to Saskatchewan. And then some older lady called in. was in her 80s and she was just like, I consider myself a progressive. And I went to Milk River to the protests and

and I sucked in my car in minus 40 and she was just like so passionate about why she was there and the peacefulness that she saw there. And like, I don't have to agree with her on all the things to still like listen to her and understand what drew her as an 82 year old to go sleep in her truck, you know, and see what was happening at this thing. So I feel like it's a balance between wanting to be surprised by

some of the people who might call in and then also wanting to be really intentional about making sure that voices of people who aren't listening get heard by more people. So I feel like that's like the everyday tension is between wanting to just have like a really good thing for people to listen to and then also wanting to have it that people feel like they can be part of a conversation as well.

Nikko Snyder (: 26:51

One thing I love about you and you and the world and how you see the world is the curiosity you bring to everything. You touched on this, I think, when you were talking about your photography at the beginning and how the ability to see beauty in everything around you. And I think I see that you see that beauty in people all around you as well. And even the way that you are talking about people that you may not agree with, but being able to listen and invite them in.

And that kind of inclusion and curiosity, I think go hand in hand. I think it's a marvelous gift. I think that as a quality in a journalist, think it's amazing. And I think as a quality in a parent modeling that curiosity about the world, the people around you, the willingness to invite them in, even if they're different, even if you don't agree. For me, that is your

your particular brand of magic, one of your magic ingredients that I love so much about you. So I'd love to hear about that and you know, in your work, but also yeah, how you feel like that, does that impact your kids? Like, do you see that? Do you see you modeling that to your kids? Do you see them impacted that? Where did you learn that? Was that modeled to you?

Nichole Huck (: 28:14

Thanks, Nikko. Those are kind. I feel like I'm always seeking out those people. Like my husband is like that too. And that's part of, we met very young. Like we met the day after I turned 18 in residence. And I grew up in a small town. Like I grew up in a village where there was like one Chinese family and that was the diversity, you know, that existed. And then moved to Esteban, like a...

metropolis of in an oil and gas town in grade 11. But it still felt like my world was opening a little bit more because all of a sudden there's people who played in bands and there's two 7-elevens. It's a big place. And then moving into residence where I met my husband, it was so exciting because

there's people from all over the world who all of a sudden just like live with you. So we had a cafeteria and I think that was like the best thing because my now husband was just my friend at the time, but we would just every day like sit down at a new table with people from another place and just like learn about them. And I still feel like there were very much like that. If we see somebody in a room who is by themselves,

both of us will have independently over the course gone and talk to that person. We're very annoying to an Uber driver. It's like we're a lot. We're like, fresh meat. I honestly feel like everybody who is driving the cab and Uber, you have this little moment, this little interaction with people where, and maybe cab you feel a little bit more entitled.

to ask questions or something, but there's like this like little window into someone's life. You know that you're gonna have like 10 or 15 minutes and you can to like learn a little bit about someone's life. Like it's such a gift to learn about people. I've met so many people on my walk to work that I've like developed relationships with or like ended up lending winter boots to or like when you're open to conversation and open to learning about people, like it happens.

And I think that those micro interactions that you have with people, it's good for people. And I live on a street where there's two high schools, so there's a lot of high school kids. And then over the years, there's been some kids where you just see them every day, and so you develop, you just start high-fiving. We don't talk or anything, but they'll just be a high five, and then, I don't know, maybe they're like, that creep. But I leave.

for the next five steps feeling a little energy boost because you had this little micro connection with somebody. And I feel like the whole world is just an opportunity for these little micro connections with people. And maybe that's an extrovert thing, right? Because then that gives me energy and other people that might just be sucking the energy out of them. they'll be like, OK, that was a lot of micro connection.

a little bit too much micro connection for my liking. But for me, that's what energizes me when I'm feeling the weight of everything and feeling like buried in the drudgery of the schedules and the laundry and all the like the stuff that has to happen when you have four kids. It's like leaving the house and having like these little interactions reminding yourself of things is like what makes me feel good.

Nikko Snyder (: 32:02

I love the image of you walking down, like high-fiving.

Nichole Huck (: 32:05

all the time.

All the time.

Sometimes you will be left hanging, but like for the most part, or like on a bicycle. I really like on a bike when someone's going by and you stick your hand out and high five when they're biking past you too. It involves like an extra level of physical literacy perhaps. And they're like, yeah, that was great.

Nikko Snyder (: 32:32

Okay, so I have to ask, I know you just self-identified as an extrovert, your husband is also an extrovert, dying to know, are your kids extroverts? Are they just embracing this way of being in the world? Are they horrified? they like, mom, you're so much- I just, I need to know.

Nichole Huck (: 32:48

Like, what is...

Our 13 year old, I would say is not an extrovert. He really loves like performing, but also really loves his alone time and like really requires that. He doesn't seem to care if he meets up with friends outside of school. The next one is an extrovert, which has been hard for him because like he loves hanging out with his buddies, but they're just like a lot of like family around and...

stuff going on and so he hasn't been able to do that. I have another extrovert who's eight who would spend like every minute with friends if she could and then also very extroverted three-year-old who is obsessed with her friends that are like nine years older than her. That's who she wants to hang out with. Are they embarrassed by me? I'm sure.

And also, I don't care. They know that we're both gonna have conversations with strangers. That's just part of who we are. And sometimes my husband makes me feel like an introvert, in relation, because sometimes I do just want some quiet time. I can't even imagine him being on a flight or something and not knowing something about the person who sat beside him at the end of the flight. I just can't imagine that.

But it was funny, I wanted to tell you that I was talking to my coworker about your podcast and just about creativity and parenting. And I was just like, I don't know. Like your children are your work. Like they are your big thing that you're doing. And he was like, yeah, but he's like, with you, you're like jazz right now. You're just like reacting to.

things and I'm like, yeah, we're just jazz. We're just jazz parents right now. So feel like sometimes you have this vision of like, okay, I'm making my big orchestral thing and there's, include this and you include that and here's the horn section and into parenting and then all of a sudden it's just like somebody just like, dance, got that. And you're just reacting, you're like, okay, no, I guess we're all just jazz musicians now and we're all just reacting to

whatever is happening next because things keep changing and we just have to be cool with that. like, know, we're just in our jazz stage of life and parenting. And I think that's okay, you know? It's gotta like jazz. How do you feel about jazz, Nikko?

Nikko Snyder (: 35:31

I mean, yeah, yeah, I feel good about it. I love that as an analogy for parenting. think that's brilliant, especially at the stage where maybe we both are still where there's chaos, know, is it free jazz? it like, is it?

Nichole Huck (: 35:47

Who's scouting in the corner? It's a lot.

Nikko Snyder (: 35:49

It's a lot of chaos.

Nichole Huck (: 35:52

Is that scared? Is that scared in that corner?

Nikko Snyder (: 35:57

So how do you like, I'm curious about how you do it. Like you have four kids. To me, that sounds like a lot of kids. Like I have two kids. I barely survive the day, I feel like. So curious, like you mentioned your dance community and just sort of how that, how important that is for you. Like how do you find the balance of like being, you know, in this responsive jazz parenting state of just like constantly engaged and responsive and also like

finding moments for yourself or how do you do it?

Nichole Huck (: 36:30

think that you cannot be afraid to ask for help. You can't do it on your own. We just can't. We just can't do it on our own. And there are just some things that we just can't do. Our kids just can't play elite sports because we can't have them in their community basketball and then also on a club team where they'd be playing every weekend. Because then that means that the other kid couldn't do anything. So everybody's allowed to be mediocre.

And then hopefully the trade-off of responsibility and the things that they learn is enough. It's like my mother-in-law is like this giant piece of the puzzle. She's our daycare right now for the three-year-old and then she's at our house every day and then she's with us for supper. It's like somewhat changing a little bit with the 13-year-old because he can stay home with the kids for certain hours but...

when it's a night where there's multiple things happening at the same time, like that is how it works. Like she's able to maybe stay with a three-year-old, but one of us takes the one kid to one thing and one of us, or maybe one of us has a meeting or something too for other things that we're involved in. I think that parenting in community is a lot easier than parenting on your own. When we go...

camping or to a music, like a camping music festival or something like that now, or like a big group camping trip. It's like we do a lot of those kinds of things. Like it's so much easier and fun sometimes to like a big group camping trip. And then like the kids just form a feral pack of children that take care of each other and you can just have an adult conversation. It's beautiful to me to see my three year old just get like scooped up by a bunch of like eight and nine and 12 year olds and

and they're off in a wagon somewhere and I just like know that they're safe and they're okay, even if I'm not checking on them constantly, you know, or I know that somebody will come back and get me if something happens or... So I feel like there's a little bit of like, just like letting go and like knowing that the parenting isn't all on you. Like all these people that you've invited into your children's life are all part of their experience growing up. I don't feel like all the pressure is on me because there's all these other people

who they also have connections with that they can turn to. And I think that anytime, like the same as marriage, like when people get married and they just make it about the two people, I'm like, that's not what marriage is. I mean, I don't know, like maybe they know something I don't know. But I just feel like marriage is, it's like you're bringing in another family, the good and the bad, you know, all the stuff that comes with that. And family has your back, you know? And that's not the case for everybody. But again, that might be blood family.

you know, and then people create other family. But family in the sense of the people who have your back, the people who help you get through those really hard parts, the people who help make life work, the people who you feel safe to fall asleep on their couch. Like family is so important. And I feel like when you get married, it's about like building this family together. Like who are the people who are going to support you when things are rough or when things go with your kids that you need extra support at some time or.

And lots of people are not born into a family with supportive people or people who are able to give that, but they can find that family and create that family. So much of our parenting and our life is parenting in community. And I feel that that same obligation, like if I see a kid in there acting out, like I wouldn't think twice about like having a conversation with the kid about what's going on. I would hope that my...

friends would feel comfortable to like ask my kid like what's going on with you right now if you're acting out or doing something that's like not cool.

Nikko Snyder (: 40:28

Yeah, that community, yeah, parenting and community.

Nichole Huck (: 40:31

Yeah,

it's like the accountability too and the joy of just having like knowing that a lot of people care about you and that beautiful thing of having people who have seen you since you were a baby, know, and seen you go through all the changes and know all the versions of you. Yeah. That's cool.

Nikko Snyder (: 40:51

school. When we talked before, you described yourself as a lazy parent and that you had this sense of trust that you weren't the only person that your kids had. You use the term lazy, but I'm wondering about is it more about having that community, having that community that has your back, that can hold your children, help you hold your children and that you have trust in that.

Nichole Huck (: 41:18

I mean, I have trust in that and also they're just like, at some point I feel like there's just like some handing things over to the universe. Like that you cannot control everything, but you can make yourself sick worrying about like every little thing, like developmental milestones and all of the things, you know? We don't actually have all the answers and it's okay just to not fix everything. Yeah, but maybe like accept.

your kids for who they are and know that it changes. Like who they are at three isn't necessarily who they are at 13. And just keep exposing them to the things that you want them to be exposed to. Like I feel like time in nature is very important to me. And I feel like a better parent when I'm outside in nature. And I'm happier because like you have fresh air and you're moving your body and being mindful of the things that you do well as a parent or where

where you excel and then trying to create those circumstances can be helpful. you know that your things always are better, even though it's so hard to get out the door sometimes, like so hard, like hours sometimes of like just to get packed up and then already dressed and everything to like get out in winter. But once you're outside, unless it's really cold and people are crying because it's really cold, it's like often better. I don't even remember what your question was.

go. But the answer is go outside.

Nikko Snyder (: 42:50

The answer to everything always is go with it. Especially related parenting. I 100 % agree with that. Tell me about, I'm curious how you relate to the idea of perfectionism.

Nichole Huck (: 42:52

I'm

Yeah, I don't identify, I do not identify as a perfectionist at all. And that's maybe very freeing. It helps me make very competent children because I don't feel like I know the right way. Like I'm the only one who knows how to make eggs or make whatever, you know, like I'm thinking about my eight year old right now and she's insanely competent. I think part of it is because I just like allow.

her to try things. She's allowed in the kitchen. She's allowed to make things. And I'm not telling her you're doing it wrong. And we'll learn something together. Are we great at making pie? No. Do we still try to make a pie every year? Because it's part of the ritual of it's really cool to make your own pie after picking berries? Yes. Does it look like perfection? No. Does it still contain butter?

Yes. Well, it still tastes good. Likely. know, the fun is like the making of it. So now I have this eight-year-old who will go downstairs on a weekend morning and she has a cafe that she's created and like I taught her how to make coffee with the French press and she'll like, you can choose off the menu of like eggs, kind of whatever and that's cool. I trust her, you know.

And I trust other kids with knives and whittling. They're allowed to have knives. They're allowed to learn how to properly use knives and do things. So I think me not being a perfectionist has enabled other people to know that it's okay to do something not perfectly. And I hope that that is the secret to competent children. But again, four kids and they're all different.

Nikko Snyder (: 44:55

also goes back to that idea of letting them be who they are, accepting who they are, not trying to fix anyone, get to that milestone. I don't know.

Nichole Huck (: 45:05

The tricky part of parenting in our day and age is that you have so many people who are selling something. Everybody's selling something. Like anybody who's a content creator is selling something. You're just so exposed to people selling like an idea or a dream or how things should be. Like my husband's social media is so much different than mine, but because I'm a woman, I get all of these parenting reels.

sent to me constantly of people like making everything magical. Just like everybody has advice about how to raise your kids and they're all experts because they all made a reel about it. And I'm very aware that I am what's being sold to advertisers. And it's an interesting time because never before, and again, I feel like I do share a lot about my life online, like photos or whatever.

I generally try to share things that don't cost money, but I am mindful of the effect even that in your own small circle of people that it can have when you're comparing kids milestones to other kids milestones or what they're doing or how they're doing in sports or academically or those things that gets tricky not to in another time you just wouldn't have known necessarily. that. So I think that is a tricky.

part of parenting in our age of connectivity. But then also when you have a question about, and you just need to be validated and just feel like, actually you're not alone. Like other people feel that way. Other people have dealt with that. I think that that's when this media, technology that we have comes in really handy to help people navigate that. So you're not, don't feel alone. Like, so I'm now in my forties.

And I'm deep in it with the kids and it's like very much a time of also supporting all of their interests and passions while maintaining like that sense of identity and something that you do for yourself too. In my case, it's like the weekly dance class. But it's like, okay, they remind ourselves that there are seasons too. And I love hearing about women who are older, who are

killing it creatively. They're pursuing their art passions and they're moving their bodies in ways that they didn't know that they could move their bodies. And they're getting strong. And I just feel like when you're 20 and you're thinking about what the next 20 years of your life look like, you have these big goals of what you're supposed to have achieved and what you're supposed to have done and how the world is supposed to be a better place because you made it a better place. And I just want...

the women in their 40s who are in the thick of creating this next generation of kids who are also hopefully going to make the world a nicer place through how they move in it. To give us a little bit of grace and permission, that there's so much time still to do those creative endeavors. I love the photographer who started when she was what, like 82 or from Saskatoon. I love hearing those stories.

because I like having a roadmap and you don't know when you're going to peak. Your creativity and your big contribution is going to peak. So I like being able to give yourself a little bit of permission to just be enjoying the time right now. you don't have to feel like you single-handedly changed the world, but you're making these little changes day to day.

interactions and these micro interactions that you're having with people in the day to day. that if that's like all you can do right now, but that's enough. Yeah. Thank you for that.

Nikko Snyder (: 49:06

There's something you said when we talked before, and I feel like this relates to what you were just saying, and I think it was in relation to your work, your work as a journalist, but maybe just you in the world, but figuring out what makes you, how do we figure out what makes you feel like you're making the lives of other people better? It's just that those can be really small things, like that, the way you were talking about these micro interactions or these.

Nichole Huck (: 49:31

Yeah, and like last year I lost a friend to suicide and his service or celebration of life or whatever it was called was like really beautiful and there's all these people sharing these stories of how he touched their lives in ways that he just would never know.

You know, and I hate that, like it makes me so sad that he couldn't see himself the way that everybody else saw him. That he couldn't love himself the way that everybody loved him. But it's just like a reminder to me to remind the people in your life, like the people that do make your life better on a daily basis. And they might not never know that, to tell them about that too.

Even like if someone has planted some beautiful flowers and they cheer you up when you walk by their house, letting them know that those flowers is something and you'll feel good about it and they'll feel good. You just don't know the impact that you have on other people and sometimes until it is too late. So I know it's hard because I think we're all conditioned, especially like journalists or an activist.

to lead the revolution and you want to be there on the front lines of the revolution and see systemic change happen. But all those little things, whether it's helping a nation get bison back, everybody has that power to leave the world a little bit better in whatever way they do. We did a show about talking, about communicating in an age of

quite polarized times. And who he booked is like a barber, because he every day navigates these conversations with people who come and sit down. And it's like, what can we learn about how to have these conversations with somebody who, who knows what it's like to talk to people he doesn't necessarily agree with? What is the wisdom that we can learn from people? I've done this one series called employee of the week. It started with the guy who

He did the scatting of the groceries at the local independent grocery store in Harris. People would go out of their way to go through his till because he was just such a... He just made people feel special. Or it was the guy that cleaned the floors at the general hospital. And he would go out of his way to stop and give people directions when they were lost. It made them happy when they had an interaction with him. That's important. Those stories need to be told too, just as much as the revolutionaries.

because everybody has a role. And I think that we can keep aspiring to do more and be more. And I think that's healthy. And also, what can I do today in a small way that can make someone's life a little bit better? You see someone that's very cold, can you just give them a ride? Those things are easy enough to do. Strike up a conversation with somebody when you're waiting for the bus.

give them like a little pep talk. Those things don't cost anything and you don't need a degree or a job at a fancy place to do that. You doing like a podcast like this, helping people who might feel like they weren't at 41 where they thought they were going to be at 41 maybe career-wise or whatever because they got sidetracked by like bringing humans into the world and doing you know.

doing other things or taking care of themselves through health concerns or whatever sidetracks people's dreams because they're getting wisdom. They're getting that hard-fought wisdom. So when they write their book at 80, they have a whole lifetime of wisdom to draw from and to share with people.

Nikko Snyder (: 53:40

Thank you for that and want you to know how you are in the world. Bring so much light and goodness and help. Thank you for being you. I see you in the world and I love that I get to be in your life. Yes, good caller. Our kids have been, I will mention, this is winter holidays, Sunday afternoon, our kids are doing God knows what. They've been quiet for almost two hours, like bless them.

Nichole Huck (: 53:56

Now let's

Nikko Snyder (: 54:10

and our partners and yes let's go outside. Thanks Nichole.

Nichole Huck (: 54:13

You

Nikko Snyder (: 54:41

Thanks again to Nichole Huck for joining me on Parenting Creative and sharing her particular brand of magic. And thanks to all of you for listening. If you want to hear more conversations about the alchemy of parenting and creative life, please help the podcast grow by visiting parentingcreative.com to sign up for our email newsletter. And if you're able, by becoming a founding member of Parenting Creative, you can find out more information about that on our website or in the show notes.

I also want to give credit to my partner in parenting and podcasting, Jeremy Sauer, for all his work to make parenting creative sound great, and to Natural Sympathies for the use of her song, Hello, as the parenting creative theme song. The song asks, is anyone out there? And I hope that you are. Parenting creative is recorded and produced on the traditional and unceded territory of the Sinixt in BC's Slocan Valley. Thanks for listening and I'll see you again soon.